[JBandRio]

Ee and EE are no different, in and of themselves, in fading or not. It was once thought that EE horses were non-fading, but that has since proven to be false.

This does have me stumped, as I was sure she was a smokey black. If you don't mind, I'm going to send a link to your pictures to a color-guru friend of mine and see what she thinks.

[3WishesDun]

Originally Posted by shannond

April, just wanted to ask about this, as I don't think I've heard this before. Why do you mention that she is heterozygous for black? Yep, I see that she tested Ee, but does that affect fading in black horses?

I do not think that being homozygous or heterozygous determines if a horse will fade or not. I do think there is a "blue-black" that is truly non-fading... but they cannot differentiate genetically between black and non-fading black. Because I have seen EE horses fade and Ee horses stay pitch black. Management (diet/conditions) will always play a large role too though.

[Slowrider]

Originally Posted by JBandRio

Ee and EE are no different, in and of themselves, in fading or not. It was once thought that EE horses were non-fading, but that has since proven to be false.

This does have me stumped, as I was sure she was a smokey black. If you don't mind, I'm going to send a link to your pictures to a color-guru friend of mine and see what she thinks.

Yes, please do send my photos to them. I'm stumped too. With the cream in her ears, I thought for sure she was a smokey black. I've seen black horses that fade a bit too, but not with the cream hair in the ears. It is usually black or brown hair in the ears. And I've seen black horses that have brown hair in the flanks, but my mare's seems to be more uniformly distributed over her body with darker legs. That's why when she came back a/a I was stumped again, because she's not a bay. And her muzzle does not look brown at all. It looks black.

Give her about two more weeks and she'll be completely shed out. Then I can take some more pics.

[doublebarr]

Originally Posted by Slowrider

Okay, now I'm stumped!

I got the results of the color test back from UC Davis. My mare is:

Red testing: Ee
Agouti: aa
Creme: nn

So she's is definitely NOT a smokey black. But it's still so weird because her body color is slightly lighter than her legs and mane/tail. But she's not a bay either. It's not due to sun bleaching because she is starting to shed out her winter coat and you can still see the difference.

Could it be possible that she carries the dun gene and is really a very dark grullo? She does have dun in her bloodlines but her sire was just papered as a black. I wish I had some pics. of him.

And why would she have the definite cream colored hair in her ears? Now I'm really confused. lol Once she sheds out completely I'll get some better pics.

I still say she's a dark grullo and the aa with the nn on creme is a good indicator to me. I'm going to share this with a excellent "color" breeder friend I have and see what she thinks. I'll let you know.

[Slowrider]

Well I spent an hour today on AQHA's website looking up the foals of the sire and dam. There are no registered duns out of either side. So that alone makes me think she is just a black. But go ahead and ask your color expert friends for me because I still can't understand that cream in the ears.

[doublebarr]

Mary (Haas Horse Farm) is waiting on approval to get to post, but she sent me an e-mail and said that she puts her as black and the hairs in the ear don't really mean anything. (LOL, that's why I asked her, cause I have a very, very limited understanding of color genetic, but it's growing daily learning from her ). I'm sure she can explain it better when she gets approval to post.

[LilEquineLuva]

Originally Posted by doublebarr

Mary (Haas Horse Farm) is waiting on approval to get to post, but she sent me an e-mail and said that she puts her as black and the hairs in the ear don't really mean anything. (LOL, that's why I asked her, cause I have a very, very limited understanding of color genetic, but it's growing daily learning from her ). I'm sure she can explain it better when she gets approval to post.

I LOVE MARY! She's pretty much the best ever! I love reading her interpretations on the CPEA color board, she's such a guru! What a great person to ask. If nobody had already done it I was going to ask her to take a look at this, or post something about it on the color board. Glad to see somebody else knows how wonderful she is! Hehe.

[doublebarr]

Originally Posted by LilEquineLuva

I LOVE MARY! She's pretty much the best ever! I love reading her interpretations on the CPEA color board, she's such a guru! What a great person to ask. If nobody had already done it I was going to ask her to take a look at this, or post something about it on the color board. Glad to see somebody else knows how wonderful she is! Hehe.

She is an awesome lady, isn't she. The red dun mare we've got on a showing lease this year is hers. We work together on the foundation QH stuff. I LOVE MARY TOO!!!!

[ajsck5]

Here is a pictrue of my black gelding that is Eeaa.

At times I believe I can see the black stockings that bays have.He is out of a Dark bay mare and a Regular bay stallion. I took this picture in the summer.
This is a picture of my brown horse and Spencer (my black gelding). This was taken Sunday.


Don't know if it helps or not. His coloration changes shades threw out the year.

[Haas Horse Farm]

that the light colored hair in the ears mean nothing. I have had many brown horses with that. They have no cream gene.

To me the mare is just black...

Also I have a black and white paint mare that never faded and then suddenly one year she faded bad. That tells me that feed and enviorment play a big part in all of it. This is her with a breeding stock paint colt (with no white anywhere) by a buckskin stallion. The colt was sold as grade since the QH stallion owner never did the paper work to get his stallion approved for APHA...


Here is a brown colt with creamy hair in his ears... no cream gene there!


The only way to be sure on the dun factor is to know if the sire or dam have it. I have seen some very very dark horses before with dun factor but at some point in the year you could see it... I own a mare that gets very dark in winter.... but she has the dun offspring to prove the dun factor is there.




Thanks for all the nice comments. I just like to go by the facts as seen by the true colors and pedigrees and offspring. I thankfully have convinced one lady in NY that her brown stallion cannot be black and produce grullo offspring. LOL Glad to meet some who want to know what colors their horses really are sometimes people can really be in denial about it! LOL

Doublebarr is the very best friend anyone can have... sorry I have no idea whom the other poster is but thanks for the nice words. Glad to know that some appreciate the time I have spent studing this stuff.

Here is a web site that has really helped me understand genetics... Coat Color Genetics