[MTFoalluver]

I keep forgetting how to post photos here.

But, here are my two black grullos - the dun factoring is obvious on both and their faces are black and their bodies are just a diluted black.


this is my mare belle & her 2006 black filly


this is my stallion sparky

[Slowrider]

Originally Posted by doublebarr

Slowrider - this is Linden Mo Dean Girl (I think I have her on Allbreed) she is a Grullo but looks dark like your mare. Her dad was grullo, mom was sorrel. In the winter, it's harder to see her dorsal and primitave markings, but they are there. She looks remarkably like your girl.

Side view


Looking down her back, see the hair in her ears like your mare, same color and style.


Closer view of the dorsal.



Last spring as a 3 year old.


She is Grullo, but sometimes it's harder to tell with a dark winter coat. I really believe your mare could and probably is a grullo also.

That's really interesting Doublebarr. I've never known grullos to be that dark. I guess it could be possible that the sire was also a really dark grullo and not a black.

Well, I'll know for sure in a couple of weeks when I get the color testing results back.

If she is A/A or A/a I know she cannot be a grullo because they are always a/a. Plus I also asked for the creme test too, just to see. I can't wait until they come up with a test for the dun gene. That would take so much out of the guess work. lol

[Slowrider]

Originally Posted by MTFoalluver

I keep forgetting how to post photos here.

But, here are my two black grullos - the dun factoring is obvious on both and their faces are black and their bodies are just a diluted black.


this is my mare belle & her 2006 black filly


this is my stallion sparky

Those are some gorgeous horses you have there. They definitely look more grullo in the summer coats. I'll have to see what my mare looks like when she sheds out.

[luvs2ride79]

Originally Posted by 3WishesDun

I followed a link from DunCentralStation to this stallion's page.
He is supposedly a dark grullo.
Mountain Village Farm - Stallion

Does your horse have any hint of a dorsal?

Many foals are born with dun-like markings. It's nature's camo! lol And, Grullas are usually born buckskin/tan looking, not silver. Blacks are often born silver. I would say that stud is NOT a grulla/o. He could be a smokey black with counter shading, but not a grulla.

As far as the OP's horse, I'd say she's a fading black. Have her tested for Creme to know for sure. It's only a $25 test from Pet DNA Services of AZ - Equine Services

[Slowrider]

Okay, now I'm stumped!

I got the results of the color test back from UC Davis. My mare is:

Red testing: Ee
Agouti: aa
Creme: nn

So she's is definitely NOT a smokey black. But it's still so weird because her body color is slightly lighter than her legs and mane/tail. But she's not a bay either. It's not due to sun bleaching because she is starting to shed out her winter coat and you can still see the difference.

Could it be possible that she carries the dun gene and is really a very dark grullo? She does have dun in her bloodlines but her sire was just papered as a black. I wish I had some pics. of him.

And why would she have the definite cream colored hair in her ears? Now I'm really confused. lol Once she sheds out completely I'll get some better pics.

[Slowrider]

Originally Posted by 3WishesDun

I followed a link from DunCentralStation to this stallion's page.
He is supposedly a dark grullo.
Mountain Village Farm - Stallion

Does your horse have any hint of a dorsal?

You know April, now that she is starting to shed out, she is looking exactly like the horse you linked to in your post.

[PeggySue]

according to my OLD genetics book she would be a fading black. BUT THIS BOOK IS OLD!!!

[3WishesDun]

Originally Posted by luvs2ride79

Many foals are born with dun-like markings. It's nature's camo! lol And, Grullas are usually born buckskin/tan looking, not silver. Blacks are often born silver. I would say that stud is NOT a grulla/o. He could be a smokey black with counter shading, but not a grulla.

As far as the OP's horse, I'd say she's a fading black. Have her tested for Creme to know for sure. It's only a $25 test from Pet DNA Services of AZ - Equine Services

Yes, I know what countershading is....
I was just posting a link to a horse Duncentralstation has for an example of a dark, dark grullo. Have you seen their site? They seem to be pretty knowledgable about dun horses and those mimicing dun horses. But I guess until there is a genetic test for dun... no one will know for sure.

Slowrider- Either she is a heterozygous black horse with countershading or she could possibly be a very dark dun. I have never seen a dun that dark, but again, no way to prove or disprove until they get a genetic test for it.

(Or if you ever breed her to a non-dun horse and she throws a dun foal.)

[Shannon]

Originally Posted by 3WishesDun

Slowrider- Either she is a heterozygous black horse with countershading or she could possibly be a very dark dun. I have never seen a dun that dark, but again, no way to prove or disprove until they get a genetic test for it.

April, just wanted to ask about this, as I don't think I've heard this before. Why do you mention that she is heterozygous for black? Yep, I see that she tested Ee, but does that affect fading in black horses?

[Blistering Winds]

Originally Posted by shannond

April, just wanted to ask about this, as I don't think I've heard this before. Why do you mention that she is heterozygous for black? Yep, I see that she tested Ee, but does that affect fading in black horses?

I've heard it does...but I don't think a lot of research is out there on it much yet.