[EventingDayDream]

Hi everyone! I'm new to the board and am looking for a little advice. I'm 16 and currently am schooling a 16 hand palomino paint. We've done a few dressage shows and a few hunter shows and plan to compete in horse trials in the spring. He's in the dressage ring with just a snaffle but the higher we jump in cross country and stadium jumping the stronger and faster he become. I have tried a kimberwick but that only cause him to curl his head under and evade when I really need his head up and out a little more to jump. I read an article disucussing gag bits and am thinking about buying just a plain eggbutt gag to jump in. I know a lot of professional jumpers use them and was wondering what everyone thought aboput them? Any advice?

[Blistering Winds]

I use a gag, and if used properly, you can get control of your horse with a lot less pressure. Just make sure you learn HOW to use it for what you need to do.

[Dawn]

Have you thought about a pelham? I would suggest using one with two reins. That way you have the snaffle, which he goes fine in, then you have the extra control of the curb when you need it. But he will not keep his neck curled because there's not constant curb action like with the kimberwicke.

[Blistering Winds]

I do know many people who use 2 different bits. One for dressage because you ask the horse to give more in the head and the neck, and another for jumping, so you can control their speed and set-up more. Might think about maybe cross-training like that.

[Dawn]

Well if you're just in the lower levels of dressage, you'll have to use two different bits if you're going to use something besides a snaffle. Having the two seperate bits also helps them understand what they're getting ready to do.

[H/J Princess]

Elevator bits are pretty handy...depending on how strong your horse is, you can change the ring that your rein is on - it can be used as a snaffle, and by going a ring lower you have a little more control and a stronger bit. I don't know how much of a bit your horse needs, but i hope it helps...

[CANDYGIRL]

I think from your description, in the UK, we call this kind of bit a Dutch Gag, It might be called the same all over, like you say you can move your reins down a ring, well from the first ring which acts like a snaffle to the third ring, which gives you more poll pressure. saves on the expense of having different bits for different jobs. I know of a lot of people, including the kids that do pony club, that use these and they work realy well, you can get jointed and flexible nylon straight bar, over here and they are very popular.

[RubySlipper]

I would try a three ring elevator before you go to a gag bit, and if you do need the gag try using it only for shows, and not at home, that is a lot of bit, and i would't ride your horse in it all the time.

[titan_buck]

HELLO??? eek! eek! I'm really sorry, because I know this is going to make a lot of people mad, and that's not my intention, but I have to share.

Many people who post here are VERY knowledgable. Lately I haven't posted much because I agree w/ what I see...but....

I would advise NOT getting a gag bit.

If your horse is getting too strong, it's an indication that the half-halts aren't coming through. You need to work more transitions. That may mean making downward transitions and circles and half-halting a regular part of schooling the cross-country courses. I'm not saying do complete downward transitions during a show...unless he's running away with you... but maybe try asking for the downward transition till just before he gives it to you and then keep him going. Try this to change his mind-set as well as get him listening to your aids again.

When you "bit up" to a stronger bit, you rely too much on your hands. You will see a trend in your riding to get more and more "handsy".

You will see benefits if you "bit up", however, it's not going to stay for long. You may find that you get harder and harder on his mouth to get the results you want.

The answer is to get him to respond to seat. If you are in two point, you can do this with establishing a rhythm with your driving leg. As he's in the moment of suspension, add leg, and when he's pushing off, allow w/ your seat by opening the hip and knee joints (downward movement of the leg).

Try this exercise in 2pt.:
Trot. At the time he is in suspension, drive. As he comes in contact w/ the ground release the driving leg and allow your leg to relax downward. Your hip will open (thigh up is a closed hip, thigh down is hip open). First get with the motion, and after you feel you are in the motion, try hesitating or holding on the downward push to see if you can slow his rhythm a bit. Some people like to picture being on a bouncy ball that you have to push off the ground with your feet to jump up. (I'm showing my age) Another picture is a pogo stick.

But anyway...
Bitting up is the lazy way to get what you can get with good riding, good training, and time. If you are going to do dressage, as you have to do for eventing, you aren't doing yourself any favors by using a harsher bit. The harsher bit circumvents the riding skills you are going to need for that event. (I really hope I'm not sounding like a fortune cookie here)

But if this exercise doesn't work for you and you feel safer with a stronger bit, the do so. Just keep working on 1/2 halts, transitions, and changes of direction to keep his attention.

[hus&wp]

i really agree with buck. elevator bits are for very very skilled people and horses that have hard mouths that's not your problem! I would say school more at home. This sounds weird but have you ever watched reiners. pratice slowing him down and getting control don't let him get away with that. i had one horse that would never listen at all. when im at home i do a lot of troting untill he setteles then we move to canering and if he gets strong he comes back and trots. Always have a place to go back to and once you get him settled at your bigger fences and his pace doesn't change at the trot then move to cantering if he gets strong bring him back to you and trot him back through. TIME TIME TIME is all you need. buck is soo right you don't want to be riding off your hands and that is exactly what is going to happen and if you didn't like the kimberwick you are definatly not going to get along with a gag bit! it will do the same thing but to and much harsher and greater extent. good luck