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Discuss Caslick procedure in my tb mare at the Horse Breeding forum - Horse Breeding Forums.

Originally Posted by GingersMum That quote has nothing to do with a mare being side ...
  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingersMum View Post
    That quote has nothing to do with a mare being side tracked by another horse. They have those signs because they are in pain not because they are feeling frisky. The link does not say anything about the caslick causing a behavior change-as in sewing the up will keep them from horseing. Now if beforehand they were urinating and swishing the tail because they had pneumovagina-then yes you will see a behavior change because the cause has been fixed. But if they are winking and are wanting attention from every horse that passes by simply because of hormones, sewing them up is not going to change that, because you haven't fixed the cause, preventing them from winking at everything doesn't fix the mental aspect IMO. Nor have I read anything that shows that to be true.
    I don't particularly care what you choose to believe. I'm stating from experience on what is done and why it's done on the STB track and has been done for years on the STB track (I've seen it since I started with STBs in the 70's and had vets do this procedure for the exact reasons I stated. Vet's from New Bolton Center in PA. Race track vets who work right out of the Univ. of PA. You choose to believe that I only posted on here to spread disinformation, ie lie, and argue, that's your choice. You choose to learn something you were not previously aware of, your choice as well.



    [QUOTE=Outrider;7441522]In this day and age we have WAY too many people, WAY too sensitive about WAY too many things and taking something that only deserves a "ho hum" response as a slight against themselves personally. [/QUOTE]

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    Quote Originally Posted by manesntails View Post
    No, I NEVER said it supresses the heat. I said it has no affect on the heat but to stop the horse from horsing; ie, winking. THAT is what you and a couple others had issue with. Let's not change our issues in mid stream and NOW say that the issue was something other than what it was. AGAIN, you and others took issue that Caslicks will stop the mare from winking. I said it would...........you said she could still wink. NOTHING was said by me about Caslicks stopping a mare coming into heat. That would be ridiculous and I never said it.
    My appologies.
    Mare with caslick will wink, perhaps the track does very extreme caslick... then maybe... I'd imagine it would have o be really excessive?
    As for a reason.... Perhaps the track you're involved with or the STB culture is such that people do excessiv procedure in belief winking is what they need to prevent....

    What I argue is that this in not what caslick is meant for. Not for stopping mare from winking.

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    Senior Member DubyaS6's Avatar
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    Are there really 7 pages of talking about mare's va jay jays

    Sorry, I just feel the need to lighten the mood a little
    Quote Originally Posted by queendancer View Post
    dunno furlongs thats football
    In my opinion, a horse is the animal to have. Eleven-hundred pounds of raw muscle, power, grace, and sweat between your legs - it's something you just can't get from a pet hamster. ~Author Unknown

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    Quote Originally Posted by jedy View Post
    My appologies.
    Mare with caslick will wink, perhaps the track does very extreme caslick... then maybe... I'd imagine it would have o be really excessive?
    As for a reason.... Perhaps the track you're involved with or the STB culture is such that people do excessiv procedure in belief winking is what they need to prevent....

    What I argue is that this in not what caslick is meant for. Not for stopping mare from winking.
    You call up the Univ. of PA. New Bolton Center and tell that to the Vets who do it on STB every day of the week for the exact reason I stated and tell me what you hear back from them. It is common senses. If the mare can't open the lips of the vulva, it can't wink. Common sense. You can stick your tongue out but if your lips are closed, you had no effect on the people around you, nor did the mare who tried to wink with her lips closed. Common sense. Caslicks prevents the mare from horsing, does NOT prevent her from coming into heat but prevents her from horsing and stops the behaviors associated with it. You don't want your mare horsing OR sucking wind. You prevent her from doing that and you prevent her from having the illness associated with sucking wind. A good vet does what 's necessary to prevent illness. It isn NOT an unnnecessary proceedure. You don't know anything about doing it for racing mares so automatically you assume since you don't do it it has to be something unnnecessary. It is preventative for pneumovagina on the race track AND stops horsing and the behaviors associated with it when the horse is under harness.



    [QUOTE=Outrider;7441522]In this day and age we have WAY too many people, WAY too sensitive about WAY too many things and taking something that only deserves a "ho hum" response as a slight against themselves personally. [/QUOTE]

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    Quote Originally Posted by manesntails View Post
    I don't particularly care what you choose to believe.
    Ouch, I didn't ask you to and I really don't understand where the attitude is coming from.
    I'm stating from experience on what is done and why it's done on the STB track and has been done for years on the STB track (I've seen it since I started with STBs in the 70's and had vets do this procedure for the exact reasons I stated. Vet's from New Bolton Center in PA. Race track vets who work right out of the Univ. of PA. You choose to believe that I only posted on here to spread disinformation, ie lie, and argue, that's your choice.
    I don't believe your trying to spread misinformation, I'm just confused on what your talking about because what you are saying and quoting say different things.
    You choose to learn something you were not previously aware of, your choice as well.
    I would LOVE to learn about something I hadn't previously known about. The problem is is that you are really on the defensive and haven't provided any information to learn from, just your opinion on how and why it's done on the STB track. Your opinion may be very valid and correct but is there perhaps a site that shows/states that it indeed prevents a mare from winking and helps them focus? I would love to hear from you on this without defensiveness and snark with ligitamate information showing what you've stated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by manesntails View Post
    What I wrote is not what I BELIEVE it's what I saw done for over 20 yrs. working with the STBs. I said that WITH THE STANDARDBREDS:.................... So, I'm giving my knowledge of why caslicks are done.
    Hogwash. Plain, flat out rubbish. Stitching up the labial lips does absolutely nothing to prevent estrus which is what causes "horseing".

    Caslicks will DEFINITELY prevent a mare from winking because she CAN'T open her vulva enough to wink~!!
    Okay, a basic education in anatomy and the Caslick procedure, since apparently you don't understand what exactly is involved. "Winking" is done by the ******** being everted (turned inside out essentially). A Caslick is performed to stitch down the labial lips below the pelvic "ledge" of the mare for a couple of reasons. One being for mares that are badly "tipped" and will contaminate herself when defecating. The other reason is to prevent windsucking. In order to stitch a mare down to the point that she couldn't "wink" you would have to stitch her close dcompletely which is NOT done. Period. A sufficient opening must be left for her to urinate through, which will leave the ******** open/exposed/etc.

    The little holes are the holes left from the SUTURES~!! The vulva is SEWN together. THAT's where the little holes come from.
    Errr...uh...no. Go to the link that was previously provided http://www.equine-reproduction.com/a...ormation.shtml It shows a Caslick procedure being done and FWIW, we've done them, seen them done, etc. on more than our fair share of Standardbreds, as well.


    Look at and read your own link and it clearly shows you the sutures being done.
    Yup. and in that photo "I" did it personally. There are NO little holes left from the sutures. If the Caslick is done correctly, you are actually opening up the skin on either side of the vulva and sewing it together so it will heal and form a perfect seal.

    I'm not familiar with people who do cosmetic surgery on a mare's vulva JUST to make it smaller. If it is so stretched out from multiple births that it stays open all the time then, of course that's a health reason, to keep dirt and infection out, to do a caslicks. But to do it JUST to make a mare's vulva smaller, I would think is unethical as it isn't a necessary procedure being done for health reasons.
    A Caslick will NOT make the mare's vulva smaller. It does nothing more than to make the OPENING to the vagina smaller. That's it. Period. It will absolutely not prevent a mare from "winking", from "horseing", from coming into estrus each month, etc. <shaking head>. Can't help but marvel where some stuff that is posted on the internet comes from.
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    Where's the popcorn?!

    Very informative post Equine Repro!
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    Quote Originally Posted by queendancer View Post
    dunno furlongs thats football
    In my opinion, a horse is the animal to have. Eleven-hundred pounds of raw muscle, power, grace, and sweat between your legs - it's something you just can't get from a pet hamster. ~Author Unknown

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    Ginger, I don't know what you need for proof. I gave this below which clearly states that Caslicks stops the behavior.

    You need more, I suggest you look for it as I really don't have time to KEEP proving myself. I don't need to prove it, it's been done for years. It is NOT my opinion, it's common practice for the reasons I stated. I've been there and had it done. You don't want to believe me, fine. I have stuff to do and have already spent far too much time on this thread as it is.

    Quote from the article below:

    "Some mares exhibit irritability due to aspiration of air into their vaginas rather than due to estrus. It has been shown that pneumovagina can cause pain and discomfort, and mares exhibit signs of vaginal irritation, such as frequent urination, tail switching, and general irritability. A Caslick’s procedure, involving surgical closure of the upper part of the vulva, can alleviate signs and behavior in these mares. "

    ^^Caslicks alleviates signs and behaviors

    What behaviors?

    Those of
    frequent urination, tail switching, and general irritability.

    That can be caused by estrus or wind sucking, doesn't matter. One or the other, the caslicks stops the behavior.

    I can't explain it better than that.



    [QUOTE=Outrider;7441522]In this day and age we have WAY too many people, WAY too sensitive about WAY too many things and taking something that only deserves a "ho hum" response as a slight against themselves personally. [/QUOTE]

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    Quote Originally Posted by manesntails View Post
    You call up the Univ. of PA. New Bolton Center and tell that to the Vets who do it on STB every day of the week for the exact reason I stated and tell me what you hear back from them.
    <smile>...Don't need to. I've worked with several of them. I strongly would suggest however, that you give them a call and ask as you apparently don't understand the procedure or what it is done for. I can even give you a few names to call and speak with specifically .

    It is common senses. If the mare can't open the lips of the vulva, it can't wink. Common sense. You can stick your tongue out but if your lips are closed, you had no effect on the people around you, nor did the mare who tried to wink with her lips closed. Common sense.
    Again, you apparently do not understand what is being done with a Caslick. The ******** (the little organ at the lower part of the vulva) is what is everted when the mare winks. In order to prevent that from being everted (Winking) you would have to stitch the maer completely closed. Do that and the mare couldn't urinate. Well...technically she could, but after she filled up her vaginal vault with urine, things would definitely go sideways. So, your "common sense" approach isn't so "common sense".

    Caslicks prevents the mare from horsing,
    No. No it doesn't.

    does NOT prevent her from coming into heat but prevents her from horsing and stops the behaviors associated with it.
    You are correct in that...

    You don't want your mare horsing
    Actually "horsing" involves the whole process of teasing, squatting, urinating, "winking", etc. And, putting in a Caslick will prevent none of those. The use of an estrus suppressant such as Regumate or progesterone will typically prevent those.

    You prevent her from doing that and you prevent her from having the illness associated with sucking wind. A good vet does what 's necessary to prevent illness. It isn NOT an unnnecessary proceedure. You don't know anything about doing it for racing mares so automatically you assume since you don't do it it has to be something unnnecessary. It is preventative for pneumovagina on the race track AND stops horsing and the behaviors associated with it when the horse is under harness.
    It "is" a common procedure on racing mares to prevent "wind sucking" (pneumonvagina), but it has absolutely nothing to do with preventing behaviors associated with estrus. None. Doesn't matter the breed of horse, either - racing Standardbreds, Thoroughbreds, Arabians, Quarter Horses - it works the same way in all of them.

    I STRONGLY suggest you pick up a good book on equine reproduction and perhaps speak with a good reproductive vet, before continuing with your rant here. Jedy, btw, "is" a vet with a special interest in equine reproduction. By being insistent on your belief here, you are doing nothing but making yourself look foolish. Jedy tried to politely educate you and you proceeded to ratchet up your insistence that she was wrong and you were correct. You're not. Flat out, no doubt about it, totally incomprehensibly wrong. Educate yourself - there's definitely plenty of resources available.

    Hope the above helps! Good luck!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DubyaS6 View Post
    Where's the popcorn?!
    Scoot over <handing over popcorn>. You got a Margarita for me?

    Very informative post Equine Repro!
    GAH!!! I don't mind someone that's trying to help inform others, but GEEZ!!! At least be accurate! This one would have been funny except for how sad it was and how truly misinformed certain parties are! It's just flat out plain, basic reproductive anatomy and something we teach over and over and over and over again!
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