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Discuss Caslick procedure in my tb mare at the Horse Breeding forum - Horse Breeding Forums.

Originally Posted by manesntails No, you who don't know about STBs wouldn't know what's done ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by manesntails View Post
    No, you who don't know about STBs wouldn't know what's done with them. I trained them for over 20 yrs. and I am telling you, the mare stops the horseing and goes back to keeping her mind on her training. You don't HAVE (and I'm not shouting I'm emphasing where I would emphasize in my own conversation) to sew the vulva all the way up and SHOULD NOT do that, obviously as there would be no where for urine to escape, to stop the horse winking. The horse is naturally still in heat but to DISPLAY that to a stud, she can't without feeling a pull on her vulva which is what stops the behavior.

    You can't train a mare on the track when she is horsing. She will, when jogging (exercising) break gait, start to prance, turn her head to the oncoming horses, which gives you very little control as you are NOT on her back with the use of leg. You are sitting 5' behind her and you have to have control. You can't have her jigging, peeing and swishing her tail, catching a line under her tail and causing wrecks. It is done ON THE STB track to stop her horsing. Some mares will suck air in or out of heat and it done then as well.

    Just because you aren't aware of it doesn't make me a liar.

    No, I wouldn't know, I wouldn't. I'd love to know. I'm not calling you a liar, sorry if it sounded like that, we mst be taling about 2 different procedures from what I can gather. All I said about caslick is true, it's not made up, you said in first post we're making things up.
    You sad all the way up... from c l i t o r i s up? Caslick is done from dorsal commisue down... does not stop mare from winking.
    What is the procedure you talk about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jedy View Post
    No, I wouldn't know, I wouldn't. I'd love to know. I'm not calling you a liar, sorry if it sounded like that, we mst be taling about 2 different procedures from what I can gather. All I said about caslick is true, it's not made up, you said in first post we're making things up.
    You sad all the way up... from c l i t o r i s up? Caslick is done from dorsal commisue down... does not stop mare from winking.
    What is the procedure you talk about?
    I'm not arguing with you anymore. The procedure I'm talking about is the caslick's. It DOES stop the mare winking. Go watch a mare wink. She HAS to open her vagina to do so. You sew the lips together and she can NOT physically open her vagina enough to wink. Believe what you want. I know what I'm talking about. Go get a job grooming STBs and when you jog behind a mare who needs a caslick's done because she's horsing on the track (that means: she is looking for a horse to breed her) and then jog her after it's done and you will see. I can't convince you of what you have no understanding of and won't believe, evidently, until you see it.



    [QUOTE=Outrider;7441522]In this day and age we have WAY too many people, WAY too sensitive about WAY too many things and taking something that only deserves a "ho hum" response as a slight against themselves personally. [/QUOTE]

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    Quote Originally Posted by manesntails View Post
    I'm not arguing with you anymore. The procedure I'm talking about is the caslick's. It DOES stop the mare winking. Go watch a mare wink. She HAS to open her vagina to do so. You sew the lips together and she can NOT physically open her vagina enough to wink. Believe what you want. I know what I'm talking about. Go get a job grooming STBs and when you jog behind a mare who needs a caslick's done because she's horsing on the track (that means: she is looking for a horse to breed her) and then jog her after it's done and you will see. I can't convince you of what you have no understanding of and won't believe, evidently, until you see it.

    There's nothing to argue about. We're talking about two different things here. I asked you what it is that is done at STB track, as it is not what in reproduction world we call caslick. I will never see a STB cause we don't have them. I won't go finding a job at track, as I have plenty enough job as repro vet. I've seen, done, opened, inseminated through caslicks very many times. I also had very good look up close at caslicked mare winking, bit too close for talking about at lunch time, thank you very much. My words mean nothing to you apparently, let me quote the article you linked. You said:


    Quote Originally Posted by manesntails View Post
    ok, I didn't read all the posts but we only sew up a mare on the STB track if she's horseing all the time. It is NOT done to make her smaller. Where anyone got THAT idea from IDK. That's totally something they made up. It's done for horseing so that instead of winking at every boy that goes by, the mare keeps her mind on what she's doing.

    If she's had the procedure she would have little bitty holes all along her vulva. No holes, no caslicks.
    Part of article, most basic truth about caslick:
    Treatment should be directed at correcting the cause of pneumovagina and concurrently treating the resulting acute endometritis. The former can be done surgically by Caslick's operation although in some cases increasing the physical condition and fat status of the mare may be sufficient. This is the most common surgical procedure performed in studfarm practice, but in the author's opinion some mares are subjected to Caslick's operation unnecessarily. The operation should be reserved for mares with a true vulval defect rather than just because the mare has failed to become pregnant
    I've asked you about your sentence-
    You don't HAVE (and I'm not shouting I'm emphasing where I would emphasize in my own conversation) to sew the vulva all the way up
    All the way up? Caslick is done from dorsal commisure down.

    Again, I repeat- I'd love to know about the procedure you're talking about, and perhaps it's also called caslick, will you ust tell me? Can you find photos on the net?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jedy View Post
    There's nothing to argue about. We're talking about two different things here. I asked you what it is that is done at STB track, as it is not what in reproduction world we call caslick. I will never see a STB cause we don't have them. I won't go finding a job at track, as I have plenty enough job as repro vet. I've seen, done, opened, inseminated through caslicks very many times. I also had very good look up close at caslicked mare winking, bit too close for talking about at lunch time, thank you very much. My words mean nothing to you apparently, let me quote the article you linked. You said:




    Part of article, most basic truth about caslick:


    I've asked you about your sentence- All the way up? Caslick is done from dorsal commisure down.

    C'mon. I was using the term as you would use the term "fill it up" not as to say that it is sewn from the bottom up. Of course it isn't~!! The mare has to urinate out of the bottom. For someone who says they aren't trying to call me a liar you sure are assuming that in 20+ years of training STBs you are talking to an idiot who doesn't know what they are saying.

    Again, I repeat- I'd love to know about the procedure you're talking about, and perhaps it's also called caslick, will you ust tell me? Can you find photos on the net?
    I find it EXTREMELY odd that you are a VET and you don't realize all the uses of a Caslicks operation.

    http://www.aaep.org/health_articles_view.php?id=353

    Read all the way to the bottom of the page.



    [QUOTE=Outrider;7441522]In this day and age we have WAY too many people, WAY too sensitive about WAY too many things and taking something that only deserves a "ho hum" response as a slight against themselves personally. [/QUOTE]

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    Many mares have them done, what I was told is to help with fertility down the road, as it keeps all of the sweat and dirt from getting into the reproductive organs during racing, or showing. All the mares at TB farm had had them done. And once opened, since were going to be broodmares was not redone.

    Interesting about the STBs, MnT, but it does make a lot of sense too.

    And if you aren't going for a TB foal, then AI would be fine, and might be easier.
    "If you listen to the horse, the horse will tell you what it wants to be." Dale Pugh
    "You can undo in five seconds, the training it took you five years to accomplish." Wyman E. Bennett

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    Mares that link you provided didn't show the caslick being used for what your stating it's being used for-horseing-but rather using the Caslick to alleviate pain related to and correct the cause of pneumovagina
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    Quote Originally Posted by GingersMum View Post
    Mares that link you provided didn't show the caslick being used for what your stating it's being used for-horseing-but rather using the Caslick to alleviate pain related to and correct the cause of pneumovagina

    From the article:
    "Some mares exhibit irritability due to aspiration of air into their vaginas rather than due to estrus. It has been shown that pneumovagina can cause pain and discomfort, and mares exhibit signs of vaginal irritation, such as frequent urination, tail switching, and general irritability. A Caslick’s procedure, involving surgical closure of the upper part of the vulva, can alleviate signs and behavior in these mares. "

    We sew them up BEFORE they have a chance to get pneumovagina. It does not matter if they are horsing due to being in estrus, as I said earlier (whether they are IN heat or not,) or if they are sucking wind, if they are horseing on the track they get sewn up. It's a safety and training issue. They can't be properly controlled while dancing around hooked up to a cart in company of other horses who are jogging right along side of them and they can't pay attention to the driver because: Proven FACT, horses can't think of two things at the same time.



    [QUOTE=Outrider;7441522]In this day and age we have WAY too many people, WAY too sensitive about WAY too many things and taking something that only deserves a "ho hum" response as a slight against themselves personally. [/QUOTE]

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    Oh, for goodness sake- this is what I quoted:

    Quote Originally Posted by jedy View Post


    Part of article, most basic truth about caslick:

    Treatment should be directed at correcting the cause of pneumovagina and concurrently treating the resulting acute endometritis. The former can be done surgically by Caslick's operation although in some cases increasing the physical condition and fat status of the mare may be sufficient. This is the most common surgical procedure performed in studfarm practice, but in the author's opinion some mares are subjected to Caslick's operation unnecessarily. The operation should be reserved for mares with a true vulval defect rather than just because the mare has failed to become pregnant
    I've asked you about your sentence- All the way up? Caslick is done from dorsal commisure down.

    And this is part of article you quoted:

    Some mares exhibit irritability due to aspiration of air into their vaginas rather than due to estrus. It has been shown that pneumovagina can cause pain and discomfort, and mares exhibit signs of vaginal irritation, such as frequent urination, tail switching, and general irritability. A Caslick’s procedure, involving surgical closure of the upper part of the vulva, can alleviate signs and behavior in these mares.

    Both state most common reason to do caslick is pneumovagina, and that is what this thread was going on about till you stated it's to suppress estrus. I stated before that having pneumovagina treated/prevented can relief some of the showing of the heat.

    That does not mean that caslick will SUPRESS heat. Or stop them from winking.
    Read carefully what you linked. It says exactly what me and others have said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jedy View Post




    Both state most common reason to do caslick is pneumovagina, and that is what this thread was going on about till you stated it's to suppress estrus. I stated before that having pneumovagina treated/prevented can relief some of the showing of the heat.

    That does not mean that caslick will SUPRESS heat. Or stop them from winking.
    Read carefully what you linked. It says exactly what me and others have said.
    No, I NEVER said it supresses the heat. I said it has no affect on the heat but to stop the horse from horsing; ie, winking. THAT is what you and a couple others had issue with. Let's not change our issues in mid stream and NOW say that the issue was something other than what it was. AGAIN, you and others took issue that Caslicks will stop the mare from winking. I said it would...........you said she could still wink. NOTHING was said by me about Caslicks stopping a mare coming into heat. That would be ridiculous and I never said it.



    [QUOTE=Outrider;7441522]In this day and age we have WAY too many people, WAY too sensitive about WAY too many things and taking something that only deserves a "ho hum" response as a slight against themselves personally. [/QUOTE]

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    That quote has nothing to do with a mare being side tracked by another horse. They have those signs because they are in pain not because they are feeling frisky. The link does not say anything about the caslick causing a behavior change-as in sewing the up will keep them from horseing. Now if beforehand they were urinating and swishing the tail because they had pneumovagina-then yes you will see a behavior change because the cause has been fixed. But if they are winking and are wanting attention from every horse that passes by simply because of hormones, sewing them up is not going to change that, because you haven't fixed the cause, preventing them from winking at everything doesn't fix the mental aspect IMO. Nor have I read anything that shows that to be true.
    ~Miah's Story~
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