[kristen3]

I have a miniature Shetland gelding , age 4 , first 2 years of his life he spent as a whild hooligan in a open pasture with about 40 other stallions w/o human contact.. Like a fool I purchased him... its 2 years later , had him gelded , and how I can get a halter on him , and touch him. He wont let me brush him, and is terrified of "objects"..such as spray bottles, combs , sissors etc. He has a habbit of taking off while "in hand ", halter on. I have tried the soft "NH" approach...and I dont have the pacients for this "give it time "****. I havnt hurt him , I am not asking much, just to stand while I spray him with fly spray on his legs , and stop acting like a fool. He kicks out at me when I make him move in the round pen, and quite frankly I dont trust him. He has no reason to act like he is in the wild...He has a great pasture , 3 friends to chum around with, and a soft bed to sleep in at night. What do you do with a character like this one , that just wont mellow out, and be a nice horse? I am thinking about finding a trainer to send him to for a few months. He is little , but strong, and I dont want to get hurt in the process of establishing Alpha role. We live in the Swiss alps which complicates things. There are only a few horses here and even fewer trainers. The ones I have seen are for riding , and sport. How would you address a trainer with asking him to work with a snotty little hooligan?

[maggie08]

If you feel he's to much, than yes definately send him out to a reputable trainer. How long ago did you get him gelded? At our barn were dealing with the exact same thing, the owner purchased a 5 stud, had him gelded about a month ago. He still acts quite studdy and can be quite a handful at times. My daughter has been working with him, just grooming, standing in crossties, picking feet. You need to go slow simple things.
We've been bringing him in and that seems to be calming him down quite a bit. Time and patience seem to be the key with these little guys. Baby steps that's what I always tell my daughter.

[rageandglory]

kristen3, if you have not the patience for him and evidently are unaware that he can not see things the way you do, and cannot reason the way you think he should, a reputable trainer is definitely in order. i am not a "brand name NH" fan at all but it has its place. don't underestimate it just yet : )

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by kristen3

I have tried the soft "NH" approach...

NH is not about "soft" - it is about talking "horse" which is what all good trainers do

and I dont have the pacients for this "give it time "****.

Training IS about patience. But it's about knowing the right thing to do at the right time.

I havnt hurt him , I am not asking much, just to stand while I spray him with fly spray on his legs , and stop acting like a fool. He kicks out at me when I make him move in the round pen, and quite frankly I dont trust him.

Then it's time to send him to a trainer, or have someone come to you a couple of days a week.

He has no reason to act like he is in the wild...

Why? He thinks he has it pretty good like that He hasn't been given a good reason why he should buddy up to you and learn new things

He has a great pasture , 3 friends to chum around with, and a soft bed to sleep in at night.

...and no reason to look to you as a herd member or friend or respected leader. Sounds like he does have it pretty good

What do you do with a character like this one , that just wont mellow out, and be a nice horse?

This is not about waiting for the horse to think you are a good guy and he can be mellow around you. This is about horse training. Some horses find humans interesting enough to become interested in what you are doing and asking and they look to form a relationship. Others just won't go there on their own. I'm sure he's a plenty nice horse! Just not "nice" in the human relationship sense of the word

I am thinking about finding a trainer to send him to for a few months. He is little , but strong, and I dont want to get hurt in the process of establishing Alpha role. We live in the Swiss alps which complicates things. There are only a few horses here and even fewer trainers. The ones I have seen are for riding , and sport. How would you address a trainer with asking him to work with a snotty little hooligan?

Please find someone who understands horse behavior to work with him. He's not a "snotty little hooligan". He's a feral horse, just as if he were a mutt range-bred mustang. You don't understand what he is, how his mind works, how a horse's mind works in general, and he's realized that and has no respect for you, no desire to help you help him, so it's in both of your best interest to find someone who can help you both

[kristen3]

Wow , you are quick to judge.."you dont understand what he is , how his mind works" Um...I think I know my horse better than you do. I have trained many Shetlands, for driving , for showing , for jumping, and some of them went on to get their Delta Society certificate . (That would be going to the hospitals )so..I am not a complete moron , do you think I could show a horse in driving classes ( and place) if I didnt know how to gain a mutual respect ? Please dont pick me apart just because I became frustrated and needed some help . It makes YOU look like your the one wothout pacients. At least I stoped what I was doing and set out to find a good trainer, knowing when to quit, and get help doesnt mean your stupid.

[rageandglory]

it seems to be inevitable when a general group of horseminded folks gather and are posed a question in certain words and phrases that are less than accurate/common, that the original poser gets defensive and comes out with their personal walk-on- water accomplishments AFTER the fact.

so sorry, but the questions you ask and the terms/phrases you offered in your first post left us to percieve that your defensive second post supports our first opinion. JB spelled it out for you quite clearly. i stand by her opinion as well as mine: that a trainer be involved. afterall, that is all that it is : )

[moka]

Yes, it is a good idea to send him to a trainer. Most of the horses react somewhat the same to whatever training method you use. But there are a handful of horses out there that are different. And if you do not have the patient to look at it in a different way it might be better to let someone else try it. But be very careful whom you send a horse like this too. Or you might have a bigger problem at hand when he comes back.
Good luck and where in the Swiss Alps are you at?

[swansonspaints]

One if they kick at me with both feet, off to the trainers or a for sale sign goes up! Lol! Two have you tried roundpen work? Here is a link that I found that gives the basic idea of what I am talking about:

http://www.horsechannel.com/horse-tr...d-pen-582.aspx

Many many trainers use this concept. It saved my horse out in the riverbed. He had gotten loose from me and got scared (not really my fault nor his, but my friend's who lacked trail etiquette) and was running down the river away from me. The water came up to his belly. He would leap and sink and leap and sink. There was heavy bamboo on each side of the river, so he never went to the shore. It was the first time he ever saw a river and I thought I was going to loose him. I finally cried out his name and asked him to come back. He had learned to come to me in the roundpen; I had established myself as the comfort and rest area while working him using the above techniques. He slammed on the breaks, whipped around and traveled the 100 feet or so back down the river to me. His bridle was broken and off, but I had a halter and lead rope tied to his saddle. He came right up to me, stuck his head out, let me untie his halter and put it on him. He looked so grateful that he was getting out of the mess he was in and I was grateful (verge of breakdown, lol!) that he had come back and all that roundpen work paid off. I will tell you, that I did not geld him until he was two. When I first started working with him around one, he would come up and rear at me. I hated that! Then I did the best thing I could have ever done. I took a telescoping umbrella (black) out there with me, he reared again like always, wham I opened that umbrella up, he is midway in the air, almost kills himself back paddling and that was the last time he reared on me ever. It completely cleared that problem. I still laugh at his reaction! I felt like those dinosaurs with the frills around their head on Jurasaic Park (the movie)! Good luck with your Shetland. I do believe roundpen work is the answer to your problem, but if he comes at you and he might, you might want to have an umbrella handy! lol!

[PUtNEE]

Originally Posted by kristen3

Wow , you are quick to judge.."you dont understand what he is , how his mind works" Um...I think I know my horse better than you do. I have trained many Shetlands, for driving , for showing , for jumping, and some of them went on to get their Delta Society certificate . (That would be going to the hospitals )so..I am not a complete moron , do you think I could show a horse in driving classes ( and place) if I didnt know how to gain a mutual respect ? Please dont pick me apart just because I became frustrated and needed some help . It makes YOU look like your the one wothout pacients. At least I stoped what I was doing and set out to find a good trainer, knowing when to quit, and get help doesnt mean your stupid.

I think you took offense too quickly. If you read back on JBs responses and on your own phrasing, you might find there's a ton of sense in there. You do seem to have a frustrating time with this horse. Training a colt to drive, jump and show is great! Training a 'wild' horse is wholly different.

I'm pretty sure this horse showed you how different it is and that the reason you wrote on this board was for help. No-one called you stupid!!

[JBandRio]

Originally Posted by kristen3

Wow , you are quick to judge..

I am not judging anything other than what you have posted. Several comments you made make me (and r&g I suspect, but I won't speak directly for her) think that while you may be able to deal with an average horse who doesn't have issues and is already of the mindset that he wants to work with and please a person, you don't have the knowledge to deal with a wild horse. The "soft NH" comment, saying that he is the one in the wrong here, all make me strongly suspect that you do not understand the horse's mind all that well. So what - none of us did at some point.

"you dont understand what he is , how his mind works" Um...I think I know my horse better than you do. I have trained many Shetlands, for driving , for showing , for jumping, and some of them went on to get their Delta Society certificate . (That would be going to the hospitals )so..I am not a complete moron ,

Where did I say you were utterly clueless?

Just because you have trained "many Shetlands" does not make you experienced enough to deal with a feral horse who obviously doesn't want anything to do with you. So what - none of us knew how to deal with horses like that at some point.

do you think I could show a horse in driving classes ( and place) if I didnt know how to gain a mutual respect ?

Without making this about you - yes, MANY people are capable of showing a horse and not understanding a thing about the horse's mind. Happens all the time.

Please dont pick me apart just because I became frustrated and needed some help .

I "picked" apart your post because there were multiple points that needed to be addressed, IMHO, as opposed to just saying "find a trainer". I was trying to help you see that there are multiple issues here, and a big one involves you needing to change your mindset about this horse. He is not a stubborn little child who knows better and is behaving poorly despite that. He is a *wild* horse who apparently has not decided you are someone he wants to be with after *two years*. Something is wrong, and it's not him. That is not a personal jab, that just seems to be how it is based on the facts that you laid out.

It makes YOU look like your the one wothout pacients.

If I didn't, I would have just said "yep, get a trainer".

At least I stoped what I was doing and set out to find a good trainer, knowing when to quit, and get help doesnt mean your stupid.

Who said anything about stupid? Uneducated and unknowledgeable is not stupid. It's lack of training. Is your horse stupid because he doesn't have the training you want him to have?

Yes, you came looking for help. But you appeared to be looking for someone to fix this horse without giving thought to what YOU could be doing differently to change his behavior. Sure, you want a nice horse, we all do, but it didn't seem to cross your mind, from how I read your OP, that you were looking to make changes in yourself - just wanted to know how to find a trainer to send him off to.

I'm sorry if this hit a sore spot with you - obviously it did. IME, that generally means that the person who is reacting this way realizes they are part of the problem, or at least have done nothing/too little to solve the problem, and are too proud/stubborn to admit it because it goes against their show record. The horse is the one who suffers in the end for that. Acknowledging that a change in mindset is necessary to help the horse is a big, huge, positive step everyone has to take, and will continue taking for the rest of their career.

I still agree you need to find a trainer. But you need to work WITH the trainer, so that you can learn why what you *have* been doing for 2 years hasn't changed the horse, and why what you *haven't* been doing can help make quick changes.

But as moka said, many trainers will try to bully and force horses like this, and you'll just end up with a dangerous little Tazmanian Devil.

I find reference to Daniela Jasper who, according to the website, "is a western horse trainer when not traipsing the globe with her husband. They live in the Swiss Alps close to the Eiger"

Do not be put off by her being a Western trainer. Many, many, many good trainers, regardless of the type of saddle they use, all start working with horses the same way, because a horse is a horse is a horse. Tack has little bearing in the situation you are in. You aren't looking for someone to ride this horse anyway, not right now. It's all about groundwork, and that is discipline-independent.

Here is a list of schools that, while in and of themselves may not be suitable for you and your pony, may have knowledge of someone who can help. SOMEone is training all those school horses.

Talk to me again about patience.