Can a mare be unbreedable.?

Jennie'sPassion · 01-24-2006, 05:29 AM

So I went with my friend this morning to pick up her mare. She needed my trailer. She had dropped her 4yo Tennessee Walker for three days to be bred to another Tennessee Walker with Rowdy bloodlines.

The man met us in the driveway and handed us back the check. He said she only owed him boarding fees because her mare is unbreedable??
He said the mare was never receptive to the stud and fought him the hole time. She even broke through a fence to get away from him. Her mare looks awful. She has cuts on her back and side and even on her face.

The breeder told her to get the mare vet checked and maybe she needs hormone therapy! Is it possible for a mare to be unbreedable? I had never heard of this. I would hate for my friend to spend alot of money trying to breed her mare at the expence of the mare's health. The whole thing sounds fishy to me.

That is why I need your information and opinions. I will print them out and give them to my friend. My friend is heartbroken and confused, so am I...
I am glad I am not planning on breeding my mare. I would not be able to keep my composure if my mare got cut up like that. The breeder said it was from the studs shoes and from the fight... WOW!!

Thank you in advance to all my HGS friends for your help...

BestofPrincess · 01-24-2006, 05:35 AM

3 days thats it? mares are not in heat all the time. some will not do live cover, which sounds more like the problem then unbreedable, I bet you could get her pregnant through AI, where are you? It seems a little early to be breeding here, most mares at our barn are dormit right now

kantakay · 01-24-2006, 05:43 AM

I'm assuming she was in heat when she was dropped off? Some mares will only stand a short period of time (the window can be literally minutes or hours), some mares will not stand for a particular stallion at all. Some mares have to be bred the second they come into heat or they wont stand. I think I would be a little surprised that the first I heard about the problem was when I went to pick the mare up. I would first check with a vet, then find a reputable stallion owner with a good stud, and if the vet is saying she's ready to be bred NOW, and she is still fighting, there are ways to get her bred. Has she ever been live covered before? Real rammy studs can scare mares.

but the short answer is yes, there are some mares who will not stand for a stud.

Char

kantakay · 01-24-2006, 05:45 AM

PS, you're breeding in January? (assuming you're in the northern hemisphere) Are you sure she's cycling? Most mares go through transitional heats before cycling properly and may or may not stand during them. Has she been kept under lights?

TrueColoursFarm · 01-24-2006, 05:53 AM

We have done SO many maiden mares Live Cover (since we have to for the Jockey Club rules ...) and believe me, when they are in, they are in and they are breedable. If you TRY and cover them when they are not in, be prepared to have your arm yanked from its socket and all manner of He!! to break loose in every corner

I have lost count of the amount of times we had a mare dropped off with the owner saying the vet said she is breedable *TODAY*

Well - let me tell you ... when the stallion wont drop when he teases her, the mare pins her ears and tries to kill HIM, she shows NO signs of "breaking down" or having the slightest interest in the stallion at all, to be quite honest, I dont care WHAT the vet says, we are not risking ourselves, the stallion and the mare and forcing her to be covered. If we did - she wouldnt take anyhow.

Some mares wont "break down" until the stallion actually approaches and is on the "flight path home" and then we know we are going to be okay.

It is such subtle signs you look for - not every mare is obvious - and if you dont see ANY of these signs, you either dont know the vet or cant rely on his judgement call, believe me, you truly hesitate covering the mare at all unless we get OUR vet in to let us know what is going on inside that we cant see.

Ive been there / done that myself as well. Sent my mare to be live covered because the vet said she was going to be breedable "tomorrow or the next day".
Well - tomorrow came, so did the next day and the day after that and each day, the mare pinned her ears and refused to have anything to do with the stallion, I told them to get THEIR vet in, and sure enough - the follicle had either regressed or was just sitting there and if we relied 100% on what my vet had said to do (and believe me - he IS a good repro vet!) we would have had a hurt mare and a hurt stallion as well ...

Since we - as the humans - try to micro manage the breeding process as much as possible, to correctly and efficiently manage the stallion as well as stretch him as far as possible with compromising the quality and quantity of his semen, and to keep everyone as safe as possible, you really do need to use every tool in your arsenal to make this possible. And that is why we insist - if we are not seeing the signs we need to see - we INSIST - on getting our vet in to check the mare out no matter what we have been told, before we even attempt live covering anymore

Jennie'sPassion · 01-24-2006, 05:57 AM

It is not my mare. I am not a breeder or plan to be.
My friend's mare is named Galaxy a non papered Tennessee Walker. She want's a racking horse and this stud was supposed to be from "Rowdy" bloodlines. She had her mare checked for any diseases and a physical back in Nov. She said the mare was in heat because she took her temp. and knew the signs (urinating on herself or something like that) The breeder checked the mare too when she was dropped off. Like I said I came into the situation after it was over I was just a driver. I did see the stud and he was still bucking and kicking in the field. I can believe that he fought with her. I can't believe he has champion foals...They must use a breeding gate or hobbles for other customers. I live in Virginia.

TrueColoursFarm · 01-24-2006, 06:14 AM

With all due respect, there is NO way you can tell if a mare is breedable by having her "pee on herself".
Plus - with this time of year, this may well be her transitional cycle (UNBREEDABLE one) and trying to breed her is a waste of time

Your friend needs to get a vet with an ultrasound and pay them the money to tell HER when this mare is approaching ovulation and not relying on her current methods of figuring this out ...

Do the mare and the stallion and the stallion owner a favor - get someone in who knows what the heck they are doing

Sorry to be blunt, but if this was my client??? I'd be extremely ticked with her ...

kantakay · 01-24-2006, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueColoursFarm

and believe me, when they are in, they are in and they are breedable.

(nitpick alert) yes for most of them, but just this year our neighbours had a mare that even with a follicle ready to pop would try to kill the stud. And this was a young, very slow and gentle stud. So regarding the question "Are there unbreedable mares". I'd say yes there are and I hope I never see another one! (/nitpick)

To the OP. Please print out Truecolorsfarms post and pass it along to the mare owner. it takes a mare owner and a stud owner working together to get a mare bred. it sounds like this particular mare owner needs to read up on the breeding process and coordinate with her vet.

Char

TrueColoursFarm · 01-24-2006, 06:53 AM

Quote:

yes for most of them, but just this year our neighbours had a mare that even with a follicle ready to pop would try to kill the stud. And this was a young, very slow and gentle stud. So regarding the question "Are there unbreedable mares". I'd say yes there are and I hope I never see another one!

And I wonder if the mare/stallion knew something that we werent picking up on ...

When I had Spot Pocket, he was the BEST stallion in the whole world to deal with. Mannerly to handle and did everything right as far as foreplay with the mares and was really a good boy in every way possible.

If the mare was ready, live cover was over and done with in - like - 60 seconds flat. And he was always ready to go if the mare was receptive.

A friend of mine brought her mare over. She was SUPPOSED to be ready - now - with a 50mm follicle, softening, folds, the whole nine yards.

Spotty sauntered out and very first thing I noticed was that he didnt drop, didnt scream, didnt prance, just seemed very happy to be with the mare. As a *friend*

or something ...

Went up to her and she tensed up and we tightened the twitch on her, and then Spotty proceeded to "wash" her. Head to toe, while giving these little nickering sounds to her. 10 minutes later, (and I am NOT kidding!) he is STILL washing her and she is getting rather soggy now and resting a hind leg and starting to snooze and Im telling him to get it over and done with, and Im asking my friend if she is SURE this mare is ready to breed???
Finally - after about 15 minutes or so, Spotty did get up on her and got the job done and as he was getting off the mare lashed out at him with a hind leg. It was a totally lackadaisical cover, no passion, no fire - Spotty just went through the motions and that was it.

I dont care WHAT the vet saw, this mare was not ready to be bred, she didnt catch (no surprise there!) and Spotty knew it

In the wild, the stalion will only be permitted to approach and breed the mare when she is ready to be bred. Its too bad that more stallion handlers dont listen more to what their stallions are telling them ...

kantakay · 01-24-2006, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueColoursFarm

And I wonder if the mare/stallion knew something that we werent picking up on ...

Well the vet U/S her, said breed her NOW, got her bred, gave her the shot of HCG, sent her home, and she is due in a month.

Char

01-24-2006, 05:29 AM	#1
Jennie'sPassion Senior Member+ Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 3,191 Images: 626 Blog Entries: 27	Can a mare be unbreedable.? So I went with my friend this morning to pick up her mare. She needed my trailer. She had dropped her 4yo Tennessee Walker for three days to be bred to another Tennessee Walker with Rowdy bloodlines. The man met us in the driveway and handed us back the check. He said she only owed him boarding fees because her mare is unbreedable?? He said the mare was never receptive to the stud and fought him the hole time. She even broke through a fence to get away from him. Her mare looks awful. She has cuts on her back and side and even on her face. The breeder told her to get the mare vet checked and maybe she needs hormone therapy! Is it possible for a mare to be unbreedable? I had never heard of this. I would hate for my friend to spend alot of money trying to breed her mare at the expence of the mare's health. The whole thing sounds fishy to me. That is why I need your information and opinions. I will print them out and give them to my friend. My friend is heartbroken and confused, so am I... I am glad I am not planning on breeding my mare. I would not be able to keep my composure if my mare got cut up like that. The breeder said it was from the studs shoes and from the fight... WOW!! Thank you in advance to all my HGS friends for your help... __________________ Someday I will ride Cutter and Big John! Goal weight 125 lbs. 20 pound club 2008 I have been snowballed! I Rode Freedom!!!

01-24-2006, 05:35 AM	#2
BestofPrincess Senior Member+ Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: USA MD Posts: 5,173 Images: 575 Blog Entries: 14	3 days thats it? mares are not in heat all the time. some will not do live cover, which sounds more like the problem then unbreedable, I bet you could get her pregnant through AI, where are you? It seems a little early to be breeding here, most mares at our barn are dormit right now __________________ tjitske you never deserved to lose a foal 5/31/05 dolly we pray for you and your lost foal 7/26/05 Duct tape is the new glue

01-24-2006, 05:57 AM	#6
Jennie'sPassion Senior Member+ Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 3,191 Images: 626 Blog Entries: 27	It is not my mare. I am not a breeder or plan to be. My friend's mare is named Galaxy a non papered Tennessee Walker. She want's a racking horse and this stud was supposed to be from "Rowdy" bloodlines. She had her mare checked for any diseases and a physical back in Nov. She said the mare was in heat because she took her temp. and knew the signs (urinating on herself or something like that) The breeder checked the mare too when she was dropped off. Like I said I came into the situation after it was over I was just a driver. I did see the stud and he was still bucking and kicking in the field. I can believe that he fought with her. I can't believe he has champion foals...They must use a breeding gate or hobbles for other customers. I live in Virginia. __________________ Someday I will ride Cutter and Big John! Goal weight 125 lbs. 20 pound club 2008 I have been snowballed! I Rode Freedom!!!

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01-24-2006, 05:43 AM	#3
kantakay Full Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 183	I'm assuming she was in heat when she was dropped off? Some mares will only stand a short period of time (the window can be literally minutes or hours), some mares will not stand for a particular stallion at all. Some mares have to be bred the second they come into heat or they wont stand. I think I would be a little surprised that the first I heard about the problem was when I went to pick the mare up. I would first check with a vet, then find a reputable stallion owner with a good stud, and if the vet is saying she's ready to be bred NOW, and she is still fighting, there are ways to get her bred. Has she ever been live covered before? Real rammy studs can scare mares. but the short answer is yes, there are some mares who will not stand for a stud. Char

01-24-2006, 05:45 AM	#4
kantakay Full Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 183	PS, you're breeding in January? (assuming you're in the northern hemisphere) Are you sure she's cycling? Most mares go through transitional heats before cycling properly and may or may not stand during them. Has she been kept under lights?

01-24-2006, 05:53 AM	#5
TrueColoursFarm Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Wilsonville, Ontario, CANADA Posts: 1,726 Images: 3	We have done SO many maiden mares Live Cover (since we have to for the Jockey Club rules ...) and believe me, when they are in, they are in and they are breedable. If you TRY and cover them when they are not in, be prepared to have your arm yanked from its socket and all manner of He!! to break loose in every corner I have lost count of the amount of times we had a mare dropped off with the owner saying the vet said she is breedable TODAY Well - let me tell you ... when the stallion wont drop when he teases her, the mare pins her ears and tries to kill HIM, she shows NO signs of "breaking down" or having the slightest interest in the stallion at all, to be quite honest, I dont care WHAT the vet says, we are not risking ourselves, the stallion and the mare and forcing her to be covered. If we did - she wouldnt take anyhow. Some mares wont "break down" until the stallion actually approaches and is on the "flight path home" and then we know we are going to be okay. It is such subtle signs you look for - not every mare is obvious - and if you dont see ANY of these signs, you either dont know the vet or cant rely on his judgement call, believe me, you truly hesitate covering the mare at all unless we get OUR vet in to let us know what is going on inside that we cant see. Ive been there / done that myself as well. Sent my mare to be live covered because the vet said she was going to be breedable "tomorrow or the next day". Well - tomorrow came, so did the next day and the day after that and each day, the mare pinned her ears and refused to have anything to do with the stallion, I told them to get THEIR vet in, and sure enough - the follicle had either regressed or was just sitting there and if we relied 100% on what my vet had said to do (and believe me - he IS a good repro vet!) we would have had a hurt mare and a hurt stallion as well ... Since we - as the humans - try to micro manage the breeding process as much as possible, to correctly and efficiently manage the stallion as well as stretch him as far as possible with compromising the quality and quantity of his semen, and to keep everyone as safe as possible, you really do need to use every tool in your arsenal to make this possible. And that is why we insist - if we are not seeing the signs we need to see - we INSIST - on getting our vet in to check the mare out no matter what we have been told, before we even attempt live covering anymore

01-24-2006, 06:14 AM	#7
TrueColoursFarm Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Wilsonville, Ontario, CANADA Posts: 1,726 Images: 3	With all due respect, there is NO way you can tell if a mare is breedable by having her "pee on herself". Plus - with this time of year, this may well be her transitional cycle (UNBREEDABLE one) and trying to breed her is a waste of time Your friend needs to get a vet with an ultrasound and pay them the money to tell HER when this mare is approaching ovulation and not relying on her current methods of figuring this out ... Do the mare and the stallion and the stallion owner a favor - get someone in who knows what the heck they are doing Sorry to be blunt, but if this was my client??? I'd be extremely ticked with her ...