[tish]

Sorry if this question has been answered somewhere else.I did do a search but .Has anyone ever bought a foal before its born?What are the usual details in such an agreement?Like is there usually a live foal guarantee?Are there other costs involved besides the purchase price?

What are the "smart" questions I should be asking before I do something like this?

Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated..thanks in advance.

Just thought some of you might like an update.I did it!I got a really good contract and had it checked out by a lawyer.So I am now officially "expecting".
Hope for a lovely foal by the end of May.Wish us all luck please?

I appreciate all the advice I got here.It gave me the confidence to proceed

[UnDun*]

I'd wait till its born! lol. How will you know if it's what you want until you see it?

[Blistering Winds]

Basically, when you buy a foal in utero, you are buying the potential for a foal to be born. If born dead, you are at a loss if it was naturally caused.

You MIGHT get a live foal guarantee, but you might not. That is something you would have to negotiate with the seller, but I doubt you would.

[Drafty1]

You want to make she there isn't a section in the contract that says the mare owner can reserve the right to keep the foal. That can cause you to wait another year for a foal.
You want to make sure that you have a live foal guarantee, stand nursing or 24 hours living.
Make there is something in the contract to protect you if the foal is lost due to mishandling, neglect or negligence on the owner part so you're not left paying for a dead foal.

And if you decide to do this and for some reason the foal does die make sure you get an autospy.

Best luck in your choice wether you buy a foal or go for utero

[Sandra-A1]

Cost involved depends on what sort of arrangment you are involved in.
It could simply be the agreed upon purchase price...or it could include stud fees, Vet expenses, Mare care/board.
The arrangements I have seen always included a live foal...and a refund or re-try clause.

I know of one breeder that now offers embryo transfer foals. You select the mare from the ones they have to offer, and have her bred to one of their stallions.. your choice naturally:

Embryo transfer is a process where a "donor" mare is inseminated and at 7 days gestation, the embryo is flushed from the uterus of the "donor" mare and transplanted into a "recipient" mare. The recipient mare will then carry the pregnancy to term, give birth, and nurse the foal as if it were her own. The embryo foal will, however, have the genetics of the "donor" mare and the stallion she was bred to, with no genetics from the recipient mare.

This process allows breeders to obtain foals from expensive and talented mares without having to buy the "donor" mare. Purchasing an embryo also allows the owner to be present for the birth, do imprint training, and work with and train the foal from the time it hits the ground.

For the process to be successful, we start with carefully selected mares to be used as "recipients". They need to be easy to handle, in good breeding health, and, if possible, previously had a foal without complications. You may provide a mare as a recipient if she meets this criteria,
or we have mares available for lease.

Once we have a "recipient" mare lined up, we get them to cycle with the "donor" mare by using hormone therapy. The "donor" mare is then bred to the stallion, the embryo flushed at 7 days, and implanted into the "recipient" mare. The "recipient" will be put on Regumate, checked in foal at day 15 (8 days after transfer), and at 25 days (to confirm a heart beat). The mare will be taken off Regumate at this point after confirming she is at a safe progesterone level.
At day 30, the "recipient" is ready to go to your farm.

In the case of embryo transfer ...the expenses are.... for example:
The purchase price of the foal.....
Plus.....

The vet expenses for the embryo transfer process usually run around $1,500 per cycle.
Recipient mares are available for lease for a deposit of $1,000
which is completely refunded on the return of the mare in good condition.
There is a live foal guarantee on all of our embryos.

[TrueColoursFarm]

Honestly - I dont know of ANY in utero contract that doesnt offer a LFG!

If anyone is interested, I can email them a copy of my in utero contract - truecolours@cogeco.ca

Buying in utero is supposed to save the buyer money and usually does, if they choose to purchase on bloodlines alone and that is the main incentive for buying an in utero foal.

If you are hoping for a coloured foal, and one of the parents isnt HZ, then yes - it CAN be a **** shoot. Since I *DO* breed for colour in my breeding program, I offer a two tiered pricing system - a lower flat price if you want to "chance" the colour, and a 2 payment system where you put down a higher deposit and a higher end price if you want to wait and see what you get before you make full payment on the foal

I have a client in Europe that has purchased my 2006 in utero foal from Guaranteed Gold / Golden Angel cross. Since GG is a cremello, its a done deal that the foal will be a dilute. They want a cremello, but *might* not want a palomino (and it is 50/50 for either colour possibility) so the contract for them has been worded that if its cremello - 100% they have to buy it at the stated price. If it is palomino, they have 10 days to decide if they WANT to buy it at a lower price, so it is a win/win situation for both of us!

[shell]

Originally Posted by TrueColoursFarm

I have a client in Europe that has purchased my 2006 in utero foal from Guaranteed Gold / Golden Angel cross. Since GG is a cremello, its a done deal that the foal will be a dilute. They want a cremello, but *might* not want a palomino (and it is 50/50 for either colour possibility) so the contract for them has been worded that if its cremello - 100% they have to buy it at the stated price. If it is palomino, they have 10 days to decide if they WANT to buy it at a lower price, so it is a win/win situation for both of us!

If it is palomino and they don't want it, not only are they CRAZY, but I'll take it!!

[TrueColoursFarm]

Shell - they REALLY want a cremello!

I dont particularily WANT a cremello over here! (with me standing Guaranteed Gold, I dont need another colt being produced to become his competition down the road! And if its a filly, you are very limited in what you could do with her)

I would LOVE to have a palomino to sell (or keep!). They have their heart set on a cremello so if they dont get one in 2006, they will try again in 2007

So - really - it becomes win/win for both of us which is exactly the way these things are supposed to work!

[BestofPrincess]

we do in utero contracts on our friesian mares at our barn, we even have people wanting foals for 2007 or 2008!

[tish]

Thanks everyone for the quick replies.It sounds like the contracts are made up"custom" to suit the situation.

To shed further light on my dilemma here are a few more details.I saw the foal from the same breeding 2 years ago and I loved it,but someone else came up with the purchase price before I could.(The foal sold at 2 weeks old)

At that time I asked the mare owner to let me know if they ever had another foal of this breeding.I realize that the 2 foals would not be identical but I am 99% sure it would be a foal I would like.

So last August the mare owner calls and says they have rebred the mare to the same stallion and did I want to be notified if the foal was for sale?I said YES!

The mare is due to foal in late May and since last fall I have been kind of thinking it was "my" foal and saving up to make the purchase.I have just received a call from the mare owner and they have had some major vet bills(on another horse) and are financially strapped.She asked if I would be interested in the "in utero" purchase so that she could get some cash now when she really needs it.

She offered me an in utero price that is considerably less than if I wait til the foal is born(1/5th of the price) BUT the catch is that I must decide by April 1 or she will make this offer available to others.Neither the breeder or myself have ever done an in utero sale/purchase so I really needed help to know what to have in a contract that would protect me and not be unfair to the breeder.

Your comments have really helped and I welcome any further advice,thanks!