Building the Topline

farmeress · 02-12-2009, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIEventer

Sally Swift talks allot about the core and lower back and how it effects our centered riding.

Ohhhhhh....MIEventer....I just found the missing "half Halt" in our "communication"

In your first post...you state the core muscles are attached to the seat bones.....I get what you are saying ....the muscles all work together as an attached unit......

But....some of the greener riders or younger ones who are not as familiar with their muscle anatomy....may think the core muscles are literally and physically attached to the seat.

And that was the actual articulation I was refering to

MIEventer · 02-12-2009, 10:28 AM

Ooh I see what you are saying.

I was sitting here - not being able to figure out, why you couldnt' figure out what I was saying. lol.

I was like - why is she disagreeing?? LOL

My mistake! Thanks for pointing that out!

Everything in your body, is a link in the chain of the whole grand scheme of things.

Bluwind_Acres · 02-12-2009, 10:55 AM

ok MI Eventer I understood the 'breakdown' post, it made ur other post make much more sence lol. Im doing somethings right somethings wrong... but i have an alot better idea of what is being said now. now I cant wait to get on a horse and start trucking around

infact the information has been so helpful I might be able to get my 'lope' down. cause im pretty good at the walk and jog but I kinna fall outta wack at the lope (on the greenies) because we both didnt know what we were doing and at the lope i would go into this 'hold on'/'barrel racer mode'. I swear everyone should have like a handful of lessons before barrel racing. it leads to injury if you dont. prime example is me. i have always had a decent seat posture but I never rode with my seat. all of my balence was in my feet not my heels. well I was at congress going around the barrel and my weight braced on my outside leg (not in my seat and heels like it should of been) and my ankle cracked right out from under me. I spent the next 2 months healing and not riding, they wanted to do sugery. after that it was common for my ankles to 'give out' because I wasn't riding with my seat. well ill tell you since working with my friend who is a NH trainer then a great trainer Named Jenny Mott (WP/HUS trainer) i havent sprained my ankle in the saddle in well over 2 or 3 years now. I also find my saddle rarely slips i have fewer and fewer 'off' moments and im still working on it but I have to say better riding practices = less injury to myself and the horse.

Edit: Actually I think this should be stickied seeing as there is alot of info covered here that could be very important.

rosewood · 02-12-2009, 11:23 AM

I only read the first 2 1/2 pages of the thread, but based off of what I read this is what I can suggest. Take it for what it's worth...it's just a suggestion. I think we all could explain the use inside leg to push horse into outside rein and ask for flexion from the inside rein to death. The thing is, it is totally a feel that has to be developed with a watchful eye. A watchful eye of a trainer. If we explain it here and you go home and try it, who knows what you'll end up with. We all interpret things differently and really trial and error isn't the way to go. You could be working the wrong part of the horse, teaching it something completely different, or getting yourself and the horse frustrated. I say spend the money for 2-3 lessons. After your first lesson, schedule a follow up one week out. Then schedule another follow up lesson 3 weeks after your second. It'll help keep you on track and make sure your doing it right. I think it's worth the investment just knowing you're doing it right.

Ok now I finished reading the rest. MIEventer really explained the mechanics of riding very very well. And some of the corrections about abs I agree with. In order to perform the sitting trot and be a quiet rider, my abs have to be in prime shape. They are what keeps me from rocking forward and rocking backward. They are what keep my butt glued to the saddle. My horse also has a very bouncy trot, so I have to work very hard to be as quiet up there as I can. My lower back is like a spring absorbing the up down motion of the trot. The second I roll forward I'm all over the place, the second i roll backward I'm all over the place. I'm most quiet and comfortable right in the middle. That goes for my horse as well. She's able to trust me and round her back under me when I ask for collection. I can't get collection unless I ask her to move forward from behind. She gets hollow and slow if I don't ask her to move forward. I ask for collection slowly. If I ask for too much too quick she gets very heavy and hollow. I ask for it slowly because then I can get her back to come up and her hind end underneath her and her hind end pushing her forward. She comes up to me lightly and I maintain soft to medium contact with her mouth and as she comes up she really flexs her neck for me and her trot becomes so amazing I could sit there all day. It's so springy and she's so soft in my hands and I'm soft on her back...we are very very happy pair. Now that's for dressage.

When I was working with my paint and buckskin quarter horse. I started long and low and asked for flexion and moved them forward just the same. I wouldn't continue asking for more flexion until they had mastered this degree of flexion. After mastering flexion, I would bring them long and low and ask for a slower gait. A lot of times I worked them in a good trot with a fair amount of flexion for months and then two weeks before a show let them move out long and low and slow. I warmed them up asking for flexion, but would gradually let the reins out and ask for a slower gait with my seat, until they were in a western or HUS frame. They were able to carry themselves at the jog and lope, I was just a prop.

JBandRio · 02-12-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmeress

Ohhhhhh....MIEventer....I just found the missing "half Halt" in our "communication"

In your first post...you state the core muscles are attached to the seat bones.....I get what you are saying ....the muscles all work together as an attached unit......

But....some of the greener riders or younger ones who are not as familiar with their muscle anatomy....may think the core muscles are literally and physically attached to the seat.

And that was the actual articulation I was refering to

I suppose it might depend on what you define as your "core". If you purely define it as your waist area - abs and lower back - then right, it's not literally/physically attached to the seat.

But if you define it as the whole area from your ribs down to, and including, your hip flexors, then it really is attached to your seat

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosewood

I think we all could explain the use inside leg to push horse into outside rein and ask for flexion from the inside rein to death. The thing is, it is totally a feel that has to be developed with a watchful eye. A watchful eye of a trainer. If we explain it here and you go home and try it, who knows what you'll end up with. We all interpret things differently and really trial and error isn't the way to go. You could be working the wrong part of the horse, teaching it something completely different, or getting yourself and the horse frustrated. I say spend the money for 2-3 lessons. After your first lesson, schedule a follow up one week out. Then schedule another follow up lesson 3 weeks after your second. It'll help keep you on track and make sure your doing it right. I think it's worth the investment just knowing you're doing it right.

agree!! Words can only convey so much, especially if you are just starting off trying to figure ALL this stuff out.

farmeress · 02-12-2009, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBandRio

I suppose it might depend on what you define as your "core". If you purely define it as your waist area - abs and lower back - then right, it's not literally/physically attached to the seat.

This is what I was saying

AmyZ · 02-12-2009, 01:32 PM

Thank you very much everyone for these fantastic posts! Invaluable information really. My parents spent thousands on lessons for me as a teenager and I don't think I ever really understood this. I'm not currently in a position to get more lessons so being able to discuss things I don't understand like this is just awesome.

Thanks again everyone

bratt79 · 02-12-2009, 02:39 PM

Wow, I never knew so much could be said about your b*tt lol. No offense to anyone, I just get a kick out of seat, most non-horse people would be like what?? Anyways, thank you all so much for the info, it is truly a blessing to have the support and knowledge flowing in from all over. I really appreciate all of this. I have an older mare that I can work on my seat with, she knows more than I do. As soon as I can though, I will be taking some lessons to understand better what I am doing and what I can do to help my horse. I really want to do WP with her, she moves really awesome for being so under muscled and so forth. She is a natural at slow easy gaits, but I want to be able to communicate with her what I want and when so we can work well together. I plan on keeping her for a long time so creating a great partnership now is well worth it, plus I can use what I learn on my younger horses when I get them going. Thanks so much everyone, I have learned alot so far, keep it coming.

JBandRio · 02-12-2009, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmyZ

Thank you very much everyone for these fantastic posts! Invaluable information really. My parents spent thousands on lessons for me as a teenager and I don't think I ever really understood this. I'm not currently in a position to get more lessons so being able to discuss things I don't understand like this is just awesome.

Thanks again everyone

I took countless lessons as a child as well, and NEVER learned how to RIDE. I learned how to w/t/c/jump/post, but never learned anything about leg to hand or impulsion (only go faster) or anything of that nature

arabhorselover · 02-12-2009, 03:23 PM

theres a couple of things you should do..
a) ride her in a collected frame
b) lunge with side reins and do alot of trotting work
c) lunge her over ground poles that arent spaced to far apart have her go over them at a trot
d) put her on Nutrena Amplify (if you get it where you are)

if you do all these things should should get there very fast.
didnt read all the other post so sorry if im repeating.

02-12-2009, 10:28 AM	#42
MIEventer Senior Member+ Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2,557	Ooh I see what you are saying. I was sitting here - not being able to figure out, why you couldnt' figure out what I was saying. lol. I was like - why is she disagreeing?? LOL My mistake! Thanks for pointing that out! Everything in your body, is a link in the chain of the whole grand scheme of things. __________________ Hey - I can't ride out of a wet paper bag but I sure can ride into one and fall off in the process. I'm watching the weather to make sure I ride only on dry paper bag days Proud Member Of The Eventers Club

02-12-2009, 11:23 AM	#44
rosewood Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Upper Midwest Posts: 1,284 Images: 77	I only read the first 2 1/2 pages of the thread, but based off of what I read this is what I can suggest. Take it for what it's worth...it's just a suggestion. I think we all could explain the use inside leg to push horse into outside rein and ask for flexion from the inside rein to death. The thing is, it is totally a feel that has to be developed with a watchful eye. A watchful eye of a trainer. If we explain it here and you go home and try it, who knows what you'll end up with. We all interpret things differently and really trial and error isn't the way to go. You could be working the wrong part of the horse, teaching it something completely different, or getting yourself and the horse frustrated. I say spend the money for 2-3 lessons. After your first lesson, schedule a follow up one week out. Then schedule another follow up lesson 3 weeks after your second. It'll help keep you on track and make sure your doing it right. I think it's worth the investment just knowing you're doing it right. Ok now I finished reading the rest. MIEventer really explained the mechanics of riding very very well. And some of the corrections about abs I agree with. In order to perform the sitting trot and be a quiet rider, my abs have to be in prime shape. They are what keeps me from rocking forward and rocking backward. They are what keep my butt glued to the saddle. My horse also has a very bouncy trot, so I have to work very hard to be as quiet up there as I can. My lower back is like a spring absorbing the up down motion of the trot. The second I roll forward I'm all over the place, the second i roll backward I'm all over the place. I'm most quiet and comfortable right in the middle. That goes for my horse as well. She's able to trust me and round her back under me when I ask for collection. I can't get collection unless I ask her to move forward from behind. She gets hollow and slow if I don't ask her to move forward. I ask for collection slowly. If I ask for too much too quick she gets very heavy and hollow. I ask for it slowly because then I can get her back to come up and her hind end underneath her and her hind end pushing her forward. She comes up to me lightly and I maintain soft to medium contact with her mouth and as she comes up she really flexs her neck for me and her trot becomes so amazing I could sit there all day. It's so springy and she's so soft in my hands and I'm soft on her back...we are very very happy pair. Now that's for dressage. When I was working with my paint and buckskin quarter horse. I started long and low and asked for flexion and moved them forward just the same. I wouldn't continue asking for more flexion until they had mastered this degree of flexion. After mastering flexion, I would bring them long and low and ask for a slower gait. A lot of times I worked them in a good trot with a fair amount of flexion for months and then two weeks before a show let them move out long and low and slow. I warmed them up asking for flexion, but would gradually let the reins out and ask for a slower gait with my seat, until they were in a western or HUS frame. They were able to carry themselves at the jog and lope, I was just a prop. Last edited by rosewood; 02-12-2009 at 11:52 AM.

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02-12-2009, 01:32 PM	#47
AmyZ Full Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 155 Images: 35	Thank you very much everyone for these fantastic posts! Invaluable information really. My parents spent thousands on lessons for me as a teenager and I don't think I ever really understood this. I'm not currently in a position to get more lessons so being able to discuss things I don't understand like this is just awesome. Thanks again everyone

02-12-2009, 02:39 PM	#48
bratt79 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 656 Images: 163	Wow, I never knew so much could be said about your b*tt lol. No offense to anyone, I just get a kick out of seat, most non-horse people would be like what?? Anyways, thank you all so much for the info, it is truly a blessing to have the support and knowledge flowing in from all over. I really appreciate all of this. I have an older mare that I can work on my seat with, she knows more than I do. As soon as I can though, I will be taking some lessons to understand better what I am doing and what I can do to help my horse. I really want to do WP with her, she moves really awesome for being so under muscled and so forth. She is a natural at slow easy gaits, but I want to be able to communicate with her what I want and when so we can work well together. I plan on keeping her for a long time so creating a great partnership now is well worth it, plus I can use what I learn on my younger horses when I get them going. Thanks so much everyone, I have learned alot so far, keep it coming.

02-12-2009, 03:23 PM	#50
arabhorselover Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: New Hampshire, USA Posts: 951 Images: 127 Blog Entries: 1	theres a couple of things you should do.. a) ride her in a collected frame b) lunge with side reins and do alot of trotting work c) lunge her over ground poles that arent spaced to far apart have her go over them at a trot d) put her on Nutrena Amplify (if you get it where you are) if you do all these things should should get there very fast. didnt read all the other post so sorry if im repeating.