Building the Topline

I_Luv_Ponies · 03-08-2009, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBandRio

You're forgetting about the oodles of lurkers who never post

Hey i post some times!

lol im finding this thread very helpful. even though its not mine.

bratt79 · 03-08-2009, 06:27 PM

Ok, sorry for the quality, my camera needs to be thrown away. I was trying to work her in the round pen and it was too small to work her and try and video at the same time so my husband helped me out. The arena was dark and round pen small and my camera sucks so those things aside, let me know what I can work on with her to build some more topline. Thanks.

YouTube - Cymara3 ff

YouTube - Cymara4 ff

YouTube - Cymara5 ff

KidsHorsinAroun · 03-08-2009, 07:42 PM

I am also re-training an older horse with a hollow back and no topline. Here's waht I've been doing: lot's of lounging with just a cavesson; encouraging him to move forward with regularity i.e nice steady pace at first, and then as he loosens up, he begins to stretch downward and forward with his nose. This helps to loosen, stretch and raise-up his topline. Transitions, especially downward from canter to trot encourages the horse to reach under his belly with hind feet; again, helping to bring up his back and build back muscles. Don't rush! Good training is like watching paint dry - you don't see much happening. But keep at it, (I've been doing this for a couple of months and I can finally see his topline coming up and developing. Maybe in another month I'll add side reins!) I takes time and patience.

CaliLove1994 · 03-08-2009, 07:57 PM

Lunging her in a round pen is not going to build her a topline.

In order to build a horses topline they also have to have a developed back and hindquarters. The only way your going to be able to achieve this is being on her back and being able to get you horse balanced and straight, moving with impulsion and power from the hind end. You want to feel your horses hind end coming underneath her. But you have to remember, builing a top line takes MONTHS of work IF you are doing it correctly. If your only working on it 2-3 times a week, dont expect results. A lot of transitions from walt to trot really help also. Make sure you work on your walk for about 10-15 minutes. A lot of people dont relize how important the quality of a horses walk affects everything else. Dont expect to have a perfect trot without having a good walk and the only way your going to have a good walk is practice, so although boring it needs to be worked on. It also cant be a lazy slumpy walk, it has to be a engaged from the hindquarter. Once you do start working on your trot, your horse has to be straight, so many times do i see a rider who's horse doesnt even have a balanced enough trot to go in a straight line and they are throwing in shoulder in's, haunches in etc. Not saying that you shouldnt work on this but dont spend to much time on it until you horse can go in a straight line, working correctly.

Now im not suggesting that you just mosy around the ring but what im saying is when you are on a straight away, get your horse straight and really push them into a nice, relaxed but ilongated trot. But most definitely work on a lot of circle and serpintines, but you have to be careful because that is where a lot of horses lose impulsion so you, as a rider, have to work extra hard in using your outside aids and getting his hind end moving laterally around the circle.

I think thats all i've got right now, sinec its pretty late here and im a little wiped out. So i hope that all made sense

bratt79 · 03-08-2009, 08:50 PM

I wasn't really working her in the round pen, I was just trying to get a shot of her movement because I can't ride yet due to having surgery so I put her in the round pen to get the video.

JBandRio · 03-09-2009, 04:52 AM

I would not work her in the round pen if she's going to (be allowed to) travel around in the frame in which she presents in these videos

Not only is it not helping, it's hindering. She's pulling herself along, braced neck, hocks trailing. So yeah, don't do that any more

The more she "practices" the bad things, the more ingrained they become and the harder they are to correct.

You CAN work on a topline on the lunge, but you really need a set of skills I'm not sure you have at this moment (and LOTS of people don't have those skills). And even fewer people can get the same thing accomplished without a lunge line and sidelines attached.

Suzannah · 11-07-2009, 06:11 AM

I know this is an old thread, but the discussion was so good I am resurrecting it and asking the OP for an update on progress. I have a million questions but need to process some of the info first.

angie j · 11-07-2009, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farmeress

THE BACK CANNOT BE EFFECTIVE WITHOUT A CORE.

Yes it can....plain and simple....it will not ba as strong without the support of the core....but it is effective.

On many soft or green horses with unmuscled backs, I often use a light back with an inactive core for softness.

As much as I'm enjoying the 'collection' element of this thread I have a horse who is just regaining weight and muscle and I want to 'build her topline' but avoid putting alot of weight on her back while she is developing. I use my stirrups to distribute weight much more than I would if I was riding a well developed horse. I can't use my 'seat' as efficiently as I would normally. Is this thinking wrong? Are hills the best exercise for her while she is 'building' muscle?-

JBandRio · 11-07-2009, 09:35 AM

angie, I'm not sure what "use my stirrups to distribute weight" means - do you mean you're standing in them? If so, that's not distributing weight.

If you mean you're sort of "standing" in them while keeping your seat in the saddle in order to take some weight off her back, that's not correct either.

Sit in the saddle, post the trot (ie don't attempt sitting trot for a while), and shorten your rides. 20 minutes of good correct work beats 40 minutes of "babying" her by a long shot

angie j · 11-07-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBandRio

If you mean you're sort of "standing" in them while keeping your seat in the saddle in order to take some weight off her back, that's not correct either.

I know it's not correct. If I didn't have a treeless I wouldn't even have been riding her yet. She's just starting to develope and you're probably right about 'babying' her. She isn't showing any signs of discomfort when I DO ride so perhaps I need to take that at face value.

03-09-2009, 04:52 AM	#106
JBandRio Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NC Posts: 32,004 Images: 196 Blog Entries: 12	I would not work her in the round pen if she's going to (be allowed to) travel around in the frame in which she presents in these videos Not only is it not helping, it's hindering. She's pulling herself along, braced neck, hocks trailing. So yeah, don't do that any more The more she "practices" the bad things, the more ingrained they become and the harder they are to correct. You CAN work on a topline on the lunge, but you really need a set of skills I'm not sure you have at this moment (and LOTS of people don't have those skills). And even fewer people can get the same thing accomplished without a lunge line and sidelines attached. __________________ - JB Acres, owned and operated by Dynamite animals. - It's a wonder horses as a whole don't just kill us all and be done with their misery. - Keep your voice soothing and low - even when things get western (buck1173)

11-07-2009, 06:11 AM	#107
Suzannah Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 722 Images: 60	I know this is an old thread, but the discussion was so good I am resurrecting it and asking the OP for an update on progress. I have a million questions but need to process some of the info first. __________________

11-07-2009, 09:35 AM	#109
JBandRio Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NC Posts: 32,004 Images: 196 Blog Entries: 12	angie, I'm not sure what "use my stirrups to distribute weight" means - do you mean you're standing in them? If so, that's not distributing weight. If you mean you're sort of "standing" in them while keeping your seat in the saddle in order to take some weight off her back, that's not correct either. Sit in the saddle, post the trot (ie don't attempt sitting trot for a while), and shorten your rides. 20 minutes of good correct work beats 40 minutes of "babying" her by a long shot __________________ - JB Acres, owned and operated by Dynamite animals. - It's a wonder horses as a whole don't just kill us all and be done with their misery. - Keep your voice soothing and low - even when things get western (buck1173)

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03-08-2009, 07:42 PM	#103
KidsHorsinAroun Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Fallbrook, California Posts: 24 Images: 2 Blog Entries: 2	I am also re-training an older horse with a hollow back and no topline. Here's waht I've been doing: lot's of lounging with just a cavesson; encouraging him to move forward with regularity i.e nice steady pace at first, and then as he loosens up, he begins to stretch downward and forward with his nose. This helps to loosen, stretch and raise-up his topline. Transitions, especially downward from canter to trot encourages the horse to reach under his belly with hind feet; again, helping to bring up his back and build back muscles. Don't rush! Good training is like watching paint dry - you don't see much happening. But keep at it, (I've been doing this for a couple of months and I can finally see his topline coming up and developing. Maybe in another month I'll add side reins!) I takes time and patience.

03-08-2009, 07:57 PM	#104
CaliLove1994 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 1,160	Lunging her in a round pen is not going to build her a topline. In order to build a horses topline they also have to have a developed back and hindquarters. The only way your going to be able to achieve this is being on her back and being able to get you horse balanced and straight, moving with impulsion and power from the hind end. You want to feel your horses hind end coming underneath her. But you have to remember, builing a top line takes MONTHS of work IF you are doing it correctly. If your only working on it 2-3 times a week, dont expect results. A lot of transitions from walt to trot really help also. Make sure you work on your walk for about 10-15 minutes. A lot of people dont relize how important the quality of a horses walk affects everything else. Dont expect to have a perfect trot without having a good walk and the only way your going to have a good walk is practice, so although boring it needs to be worked on. It also cant be a lazy slumpy walk, it has to be a engaged from the hindquarter. Once you do start working on your trot, your horse has to be straight, so many times do i see a rider who's horse doesnt even have a balanced enough trot to go in a straight line and they are throwing in shoulder in's, haunches in etc. Not saying that you shouldnt work on this but dont spend to much time on it until you horse can go in a straight line, working correctly. Now im not suggesting that you just mosy around the ring but what im saying is when you are on a straight away, get your horse straight and really push them into a nice, relaxed but ilongated trot. But most definitely work on a lot of circle and serpintines, but you have to be careful because that is where a lot of horses lose impulsion so you, as a rider, have to work extra hard in using your outside aids and getting his hind end moving laterally around the circle. I think thats all i've got right now, sinec its pretty late here and im a little wiped out. So i hope that all made sense

03-08-2009, 08:50 PM	#105
bratt79 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 654 Images: 163	I wasn't really working her in the round pen, I was just trying to get a shot of her movement because I can't ride yet due to having surgery so I put her in the round pen to get the video.