BTW and Rice Bran questions

nicz2cu · 05-10-2007, 09:15 PM

As a few of you know I've gone to a RB diet, well my mare is not what I consider an easy keeper. I looked at MaxiGlo Stabilized Rice Bran today and read the ingredients. It has many things in it that made me think that it might be too much on top of the BTW.

If I was to start using rice bran, would I cut back on the amount of BTW. Sometimes I think I was better off in the dark, just kidding. But really, how does everyone figure out the amounts of each product to feed.

Sue B · 05-10-2007, 09:53 PM

I'm not sure exactly what it is that you see in rice bran that would have you concerned. How much of it do you intend on feeding? If you stay within the recommended limits (generally 2 lbs or less)....then you will not be feeding enough of anything to "over" feed a particular supplement.

The BTW is providing a balanced nutrient ration that should not be compromised if you expect to have a healthy horse. The amount of rice bran can be increased or decreased as needed, but the BTW should remain a staple of the diet. The rice bran is a fat supplement...it contains amino acids and a good amount of magnesium and calcium. However, it is most likely fortified to balance the calcium and the Mg is generally low in most horse diets...so is a plus....and is not toxic if over supplemented.

Not picking at you...but just making a general observation to consider....
In general, far too much time is spend concerning the "over" supplementation of particular nutrients in feedstuff that we generally feed 1-2 lbs of or even much less....yet very little time is spent considering the imbalances int eh horse's primary intake of nutrients - hay and/or pasture. In the grand scheme of things....when considering the overall intake of foodstuff...horses should be eating approx. 80% of their daily diet in hay/pasture and the rest is optional feedstuff. 20% of total nutrient intake is not going to make a significant difference in the amount of individual nutrients that are being consumed. Of course, there is concern about a few nutrients that can result in negative responses when consumed in excess....but those are few and far between and are generally not found in any significant amounts in any feedstuff or hay/pasture to present a problem. Not even the top notch ration balancers or feeds provide 100% RDA of everything. There are claims by some companies that they do...but those claims are not based on "true" RDAs...they are based on the low RDAs presented by the old NRC guidelines that are enough only to sustain life...not health...IOW without those levels the horse would die.....but without higher levels, they might fail to reain healthy and fit.

Dawn · 05-11-2007, 04:13 AM

Exactly what she said.

What ingredients are you worried about in particular?

nicz2cu · 05-11-2007, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawn

Exactly what she said.

What ingredients are you worried about in particular?

The ones that Sue said. I guess I over analyze things

I do know that I heard somewhere too much off a certain vitamin was harmful, but I can't remember now which one.

nicz2cu · 05-11-2007, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sue B

I'm not sure exactly what it is that you see in rice bran that would have you concerned. How much of it do you intend on feeding? If you stay within the recommended limits (generally 2 lbs or less)....then you will not be feeding enough of anything to "over" feed a particular supplement.

The BTW is providing a balanced nutrient ration that should not be compromised if you expect to have a healthy horse. The amount of rice bran can be increased or decreased as needed, but the BTW should remain a staple of the diet. The rice bran is a fat supplement...it contains amino acids and a good amount of magnesium and calcium. However, it is most likely fortified to balance the calcium and the Mg is generally low in most horse diets...so is a plus....and is not toxic if over supplemented.

Not picking at you...but just making a general observation to consider....
In general, far too much time is spend concerning the "over" supplementation of particular nutrients in feedstuff that we generally feed 1-2 lbs of or even much less....yet very little time is spent considering the imbalances int eh horse's primary intake of nutrients - hay and/or pasture. In the grand scheme of things....when considering the overall intake of foodstuff...horses should be eating approx. 80% of their daily diet in hay/pasture and the rest is optional feedstuff. 20% of total nutrient intake is not going to make a significant difference in the amount of individual nutrients that are being consumed. Of course, there is concern about a few nutrients that can result in negative responses when consumed in excess....but those are few and far between and are generally not found in any significant amounts in any feedstuff or hay/pasture to present a problem. Not even the top notch ration balancers or feeds provide 100% RDA of everything. There are claims by some companies that they do...but those claims are not based on "true" RDAs...they are based on the low RDAs presented by the old NRC guidelines that are enough only to sustain life...not health...IOW without those levels the horse would die.....but without higher levels, they might fail to reain healthy and fit.

Thank you Sue, I tend to over analyze

. The main part of their diet is free choice bermuda hay, then the BTW and BOSS. The mare needs a little extra something and I was giving her a weight gain additive when I was feeding Stategy, but I noticed that giving it to her now makes her poo less firm, not runny though. They have never looked better and their hooves are great so I don't want to go back to grain, just trying to figure out how to maintain her to keep her looking as good as my air-fern gelding .

And I know you weren't picking on me

I'm thankful for yours' and everyone elses' help. Wish I could be more helpful, I'm learning slowly but surely. I'm trying to edcucate people around me from what I've learned here, it's slow going

Sue B · 05-11-2007, 06:31 AM

You might also try feeding beet pulp or alfalfa pellets to help her with weight gain/maintenance. I know with my hard keepers, I feed a no-grain, beet pulp based feed that contains my ration balancer as the nutrient package. So, basically it has added fat in the form of oil, ration balancer, mainly beet pulp and some other forages (soy hulls and alfalfa) in smaller amounts. This seems to work better for them than anything else I've fed....better weight, less feed.

nicz2cu · 05-11-2007, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sue B

You might also try feeding beet pulp or alfalfa pellets to help her with weight gain/maintenance. I know with my hard keepers, I feed a no-grain, beet pulp based feed that contains my ration balancer as the nutrient package. So, basically it has added fat in the form of oil, ration balancer, mainly beet pulp and some other forages (soy hulls and alfalfa) in smaller amounts. This seems to work better for them than anything else I've fed....better weight, less feed.

What is the brand and dealer . Perhaps I could find something similar in GA.

Sue B · 05-11-2007, 10:06 AM

It is Pennfield Fibregize...but, it is a small company out of PA and generally only found in states surrounding PA. However, you might find something similar in the Spillers Seminole or Triple Crown lines. They both seem to offer some no-grain based feeds.

Dawn · 05-11-2007, 12:12 PM

Remember to keep in mind everything that you can add to a ration balancer. I've had good luck adding alfalfa pellets to it as well, and beet pulp would work depending upon the situation.

As far as a feed like Sue is describing, the closest thing to that in TC feeds is Complete. It's not made with beet pulp but does contain alfalfa meal (lower sugar source of fiber). It is designed for fairly easy keepers though and should be fed in the 2-4 lb range. And will provide minimal more calories in that amount than the ration BtW will in the 1-2 lb amount you're feeding. The other option that have that is similar is the TC Low Starch, it is soybean hull and beet pulp based and is designed to be fed at no less than 6 lbs/day. The NSC of the Lite is 15.9% and the Low Starch is 15%.

05-10-2007, 09:15 PM	#1
nicz2cu Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Georgia USA Posts: 968 Images: 26	BTW and Rice Bran questions As a few of you know I've gone to a RB diet, well my mare is not what I consider an easy keeper. I looked at MaxiGlo Stabilized Rice Bran today and read the ingredients. It has many things in it that made me think that it might be too much on top of the BTW. If I was to start using rice bran, would I cut back on the amount of BTW. Sometimes I think I was better off in the dark, just kidding. But really, how does everyone figure out the amounts of each product to feed. __________________ God Bless the Whole Herd

05-10-2007, 09:53 PM	#2
Sue B Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,824 Images: 6	I'm not sure exactly what it is that you see in rice bran that would have you concerned. How much of it do you intend on feeding? If you stay within the recommended limits (generally 2 lbs or less)....then you will not be feeding enough of anything to "over" feed a particular supplement. The BTW is providing a balanced nutrient ration that should not be compromised if you expect to have a healthy horse. The amount of rice bran can be increased or decreased as needed, but the BTW should remain a staple of the diet. The rice bran is a fat supplement...it contains amino acids and a good amount of magnesium and calcium. However, it is most likely fortified to balance the calcium and the Mg is generally low in most horse diets...so is a plus....and is not toxic if over supplemented. Not picking at you...but just making a general observation to consider.... In general, far too much time is spend concerning the "over" supplementation of particular nutrients in feedstuff that we generally feed 1-2 lbs of or even much less....yet very little time is spent considering the imbalances int eh horse's primary intake of nutrients - hay and/or pasture. In the grand scheme of things....when considering the overall intake of foodstuff...horses should be eating approx. 80% of their daily diet in hay/pasture and the rest is optional feedstuff. 20% of total nutrient intake is not going to make a significant difference in the amount of individual nutrients that are being consumed. Of course, there is concern about a few nutrients that can result in negative responses when consumed in excess....but those are few and far between and are generally not found in any significant amounts in any feedstuff or hay/pasture to present a problem. Not even the top notch ration balancers or feeds provide 100% RDA of everything. There are claims by some companies that they do...but those claims are not based on "true" RDAs...they are based on the low RDAs presented by the old NRC guidelines that are enough only to sustain life...not health...IOW without those levels the horse would die.....but without higher levels, they might fail to reain healthy and fit. __________________ Save a Horse - www.saveahorse.org December 13th - National Day of the Horse September 19th - International Talk Like a Pirate Day www.talklikeapirate.com

05-11-2007, 06:31 AM	#6
Sue B Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,824 Images: 6	You might also try feeding beet pulp or alfalfa pellets to help her with weight gain/maintenance. I know with my hard keepers, I feed a no-grain, beet pulp based feed that contains my ration balancer as the nutrient package. So, basically it has added fat in the form of oil, ration balancer, mainly beet pulp and some other forages (soy hulls and alfalfa) in smaller amounts. This seems to work better for them than anything else I've fed....better weight, less feed. __________________ Save a Horse - www.saveahorse.org December 13th - National Day of the Horse September 19th - International Talk Like a Pirate Day www.talklikeapirate.com

05-11-2007, 10:06 AM	#8
Sue B Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,824 Images: 6	It is Pennfield Fibregize...but, it is a small company out of PA and generally only found in states surrounding PA. However, you might find something similar in the Spillers Seminole or Triple Crown lines. They both seem to offer some no-grain based feeds. __________________ Save a Horse - www.saveahorse.org December 13th - National Day of the Horse September 19th - International Talk Like a Pirate Day www.talklikeapirate.com

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05-11-2007, 04:13 AM	#3
Dawn Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 28,761 Images: 1267	Exactly what she said. What ingredients are you worried about in particular?

05-11-2007, 12:12 PM	#9
Dawn Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 28,761 Images: 1267	Remember to keep in mind everything that you can add to a ration balancer. I've had good luck adding alfalfa pellets to it as well, and beet pulp would work depending upon the situation. As far as a feed like Sue is describing, the closest thing to that in TC feeds is Complete. It's not made with beet pulp but does contain alfalfa meal (lower sugar source of fiber). It is designed for fairly easy keepers though and should be fed in the 2-4 lb range. And will provide minimal more calories in that amount than the ration BtW will in the 1-2 lb amount you're feeding. The other option that have that is similar is the TC Low Starch, it is soybean hull and beet pulp based and is designed to be fed at no less than 6 lbs/day. The NSC of the Lite is 15.9% and the Low Starch is 15%.