[Kriss2004]

Ok, I am just curious about this. Was reading post on wether or not to breed registered or non registered horses. So when it comes to horses like I have, the Pintaloosa? There is a registry, all of mine are registered. So I guess my question is, would you breed a cross-bred? Pintaloosa is a cross between a paint/pinto and an appaloosa, they are bred mostly for their unusual and beautiful color. Now these horses with proper breeding are capable of being raised for any event, just like any other breed. If you want to find more info on the registry the website is www.spottedhorseregistry.com

[S.HorseWoman]

That is honestly a really tough question.

I am a little "iffy" on open registries personally, especially ones that seem to let anything in them. Registries like the Sabino Horse Registry, Pinto Horse Association, American Warmblood, etc. all seem to have very minimum requirements for registering horses and not much as far as a standard goes. The standards they have are very minimal, such as "intelligent head with large eyes and no sign of Draft blood"(not an actual one, just similar to some I have read), well that leaves a really, really wide range of heads. A lot of color registries just say "this color and no Draft breeding" and that is it.

I feel to really create a breed you need to have very specific set standards. All the horses in the breed don't have to look identical, but you need to have a set of parameters so that the breed is generally uniform. Also, I think that to have a breed you need to allow only certain bloodlines into the registry, with perhaps some outcrossing with similar breeds, for example, the Paint Horse allows Paint Horses and one parent can be a Quarter Horse or Thoroughbred. They don't allow just any horse with the right coloration; it has to follow certain bloodlines and certain standards to get full papers.

However at the same time, some incredible horses come out of open registries and some of them are really gorgeous animals. Having an open registry does allow for a new blood, diveristy, and different types. And there is certainly nothing wrong with trying for unique coloration as long as you are also working toward useful and correct conformation (that is just a general statement, not directed at anyone).

Most breeds started out as crosses and mixes; Thoroughbreds were Arabians crosses onto English racers, Quarter Horses were Thoroughbreds, Mustangs, and Spanish Horses, and the list goes on. I think that the Pintaloosa is a striking, beautiful pattern and it is quite possible with time and dedicated breeders that it could become a more recognized breed, perhaps with its own registry one day.

So, I think it really depends on the horse in question. If the horse is a beautiful, sound, well-made athlete that performs well at whatever job it is trained for, I see no reason not to breed it as long as the owner decided carefully and breeds responsibly.

(Bah, sorry for the long, rambling post .)

[countryacres]

Wow you opened a can of worms there!! LOL All the horses that I own and breed are registered arabs and paints BUT I will breed to a nice grade horse if someone else wants to. I will not breed to a grade or registered for that matter that I don't think has the right comfirmation and temperment. And again it kind of depends on what you are breeding together. I love the look of an arab with paint colors so that is a cross I make.

[Dancinglite]

Originally Posted by S.HorseWoman

That is honestly a really tough question.

I am a little "iffy" on open registries personally, especially ones that seem to let anything in them. Registries like the Sabino Horse Registry, Pinto Horse Association, American Warmblood, etc. all seem to have very minimum requirements for registering horses and not much as far as a standard goes.

Here we go again.

I suggest you actually LOOK at the requirements to pass inspection at the BREEDING level of the American Warmblood. I would also like to point out that the Warmblood is not a breed but a type such as sport horses. These animals very often are not pure breeds like TB or Arab but crosses which take the best from their pedigree and become " sport horses" over a period of time by selective breeding.

I do agree with you on the coloured registries as putting colour alone as the only requirement leaves the door wide open for animals with less than desired attributes in the more important areas like temperment, conformation and performance ability.

[countryacres]

When you are looking at color breeds as far as breeding to a really don't even look at them as being registered. Like my paint colt is a registered paint but is also registered pinto b/c that gives me a couple more shows to take him to. But even the APHA and QH they a registered on the pedigree. It doesn't have anything to do with there temperment and conformation. Weather they are any good or not does. I think anyone who breeds has to stand back and look at the horse and see what their flaws are weather they are registered or not. Just b/c a horse is registered has nothing to if the are breeding quaility. Know I know when you get in the WBs it is different. But I basicly know nothing about it so I am not going to say anything back it b/c it would be me just wasting space. LOL

[Apryle & Rayne]

Alot of nice horses come from lower grade registeries. I find those association give a chance to horse who have one registered parent(aphaxgrade)to go to shows and earn points(giving value to the horse). They also give the horse "papers" and a little information about his pedigree and age,ect......

[Sandra-A1]

Let me say something in the defense of the PtHA (Pinto Horse Association).
It is in no way a lower grade registry.
It was established in 1956 and has grown considerbly since then.
I, as well as many others, consider them a BREED REGISTRY and one with a LOT to offer those Pinto and Breeding Stock Pintos that are registered with them.
I think that the shows and Programs offered by the PtHA make them a lot different than the other registeries that have cropped up where all they have to offer is the ability to register a horse.
If you will take the time to get a copy of a Pinto Horse Magazine as well as attend their PtHA Shows you will see that more and more of the owners and breeders are breeding PtHA registered horses to PtHA registered horses. I invite you to visit the PtHA website and see what all it has to offer!

http://ptha.org./index.html

The PtHA does have an avantage over some other breeds because it is a color registry it does allow for the addition of new blood as more and more horses of color join the PtHA ranks.
The PtHA has grown to offer four conformation types, Hunter, Stock, Pleasure and Saddle. In addition to the four types of horses, PtHA has a separate division for Ponies (measuring over 34" at maturity but not to exceed 56" at the withers) which are also divided into the 4 conformation types, Miniatures (not exceeding 34" at maturity) and Mini "B" (those exceeding 34" up to and including 38").

Choice, versatility and achievement for the breed that offers something for everyone is what the Pinto Horse Association has to offer!

[S.HorseWoman]

Originally Posted by Dancinglite

Here we go again.

Originally Posted by Dancinglite

I suggest you actually LOOK at the requirements to pass inspection at the BREEDING level of the American Warmblood. I would also like to point out that the Warmblood is not a breed but a type such as sport horses. These animals very often are not pure breeds like TB or Arab but crosses which take the best from their pedigree and become " sport horses" over a period of time by selective breeding.

I do agree with you on the coloured registries as putting colour alone as the only requirement leaves the door wide open for animals with less than desired attributes in the more important areas like temperament, conformation and performance ability.

I did look. I can't even FIND a standard listed on the AWR or AWS sites!

Here is for the American Warmblood Registry: http://www.americanwarmblood.com/awrgrading1.htm (inspection and grading)
http://www.americanwarmblood.com/awrguide1.htm (breeding stock inspections)
Again, no standards given that I can find. It says they are inspected based on "head, shoulders, etc." but not even what they are looking for.

Most breeds I have seen that are bred for performance have SOME sort of standard listed, but I went over the websites of both those registries and did not see one. So if you know where they actually listed a standard that gives specifics, please let me know because I had no luck finding it.

EDITED TO ADD: I apologize, I did find one on the AWS site (I missed a link that you have to click). I am not saying that all American Warmbloods are low-quality or mutts or whatever. That is not true. There are many beautifully made, well-bred American Warmbloods out there. Your stud, Dancing Lite is a prime example of what America can breed and that America can compete on the playing field with European Warmbloods and do just as well or even better. What I was saying is that I think to create a strong, viable breed there need to be set parameters for both conformation and bloodlines (performance is also desirable and I wish more breeds in the US HAD performance tests). Even with the standard though, it is not that difficult for a horse to be registered and "certified", that requires a score of 62%, not that impressive. Now, to get Blue preferred and Supreme is obviously very difficult and denotes some top-quality horses, but the point I was making is just about anything can be into most open registries. I have seen multiple PMU farms with grade foals advertising their foals as "American Warmbloods"; nothing wrong with grades, but it does not present a good image of the American Warmblood. Any horse with the right pattern and no draft blood can be a registered Pinto; which is not bad, but again, I can't call it a true breed if just anything can get in. I consider the Pinto Horse a color breed; nothing wrong with that, but I don't consider it the same thing.

Anyway, sorry I have babbled enough and I will leave this conversation to others as I don't really want to argue or start an argument. I am just expressing my own thoughts and opinions, I never said I was right and anyone was wrong. I was simply sharing how I felt.

[Kriss2004]

Originally Posted by countryacres

Wow you opened a can of worms there!!

I guess I sure did, but to, we are getting way off subject. Each registry has their own ideas as far as what they want, standards etc. Right now yes just about any horse can be registerable with ISHR solong as has color or can prove they are from colored parents. So, if you all would like to help me try and make this a better registry, help me set guidelines and I will submit them and see what they say. NOW THE KEY HERE IS DONT SET SUPER HIGH STANDARDS. This registry wants to let people register horses without having to own a World Champion. AND PLEASE...... PLEASE keep this towards this registry, and the Pintaloosa. Also since Pintaloosas are cross bred Paint, Pinto and Appaloosa breeds (not their registry)
EDIT ADD.... What I mean by not the Paint, Pinto, and Appy registries, I mean Try not to talk about what "they" allow or dont allow. U can use ideas from the registries, but please let s not start any arguing.....

[JBandRio]

AWS and AWR - yes, they do have some VERY nice stock. Yes, some of them are even "pure" European Warmbloods. However.....

In order to create a registry that has any hopes of continuing to produce like horses, they HAVE TO start picking what type of horse they are looking for and stop allowing nearly any breed, pure or not, into the breeding books. You just cannot get to any standard "look" when you allow European warmbloods and paints and QHs and saddlebred-types and Morgan-types and and and. That is the issue I, and many others, have with the AWS and AWR.

As for the original question - yes, I would breed to an unregistered animal IF I intended to keep the foal for myself AND the stallion was not of SO mixed breeds that it would be nearly impossible to predict what type he would produce. Same goes for the mare.

I would breed a TB to a TB/Draft cross IF the body types were complimentary, for example.

But, if I were to breed with the intent of selling there is probably little chance I would want a foal that was not registerable anywhere.