breeding for height without outcrossing

Lindsayanne · 07-16-2006, 12:00 PM

Can it be done?

Say you have a population of horses that are 14.2 to 15.2 hands; with selective breeding is it possible, over generations, that you could ever start to consistently produce foals in that population that would hit the 16 hand mark?

How rare is it for an offspring to be taller than either parent, and how likely is it for them to be able to pass that height?

(I'm not obsessed with the big horse fad, but know if I want to breed sporthorses out of blood-registered curlies it's going to be a real challenge to get the size needed to be competitive. My curlies are on the big side, but they are definitely the exception to the rule)

tightpaycheck · 07-16-2006, 12:06 PM

I am going to say it has to be possible..all horses came from the same (small) prehistoric origins. But it will take quite a few generations of crossing the biggest to the biggest and not breeding the smaller horses. All without sacrificing quality conformation or movement. That's going to be a real challenge!

JBandRio · 07-16-2006, 01:57 PM

Yep, it's certainly possible. You just start breeding the biggest to the biggest, and cull anything that isn't at least as tall as the tallest parent.

You will just have to start with choosing stallions (I'm assuming you have the mares?) that are known for throwing size, regardless of the mare's size. Those fillies would be bred again to stallions known for throwing size, regardless of the mare's height. Culling will have to be hard and very objective, and that means it will take you many generations to start reliably producing sizable Curly SH's.

Heavenly Jumper · 07-16-2006, 02:05 PM

^^^ Yeah. What JB said.

It would definitely be possible, just time consuming.

montana and me3 · 07-16-2006, 04:37 PM

my friends horse bob is 16.2 hh and his dad was 15.2 and his mom was 15.2 and all of his relatives were around there....

Appylvr · 07-16-2006, 04:59 PM

The opposite happens in the wild... like the Mustangs and Chincoteauge Ponies... They stay small because there isn't enough nourishment in their feed to make them bigger.

I've seen Mustang foals that were adopted out and with the right feed in them grow up to be much bigger than the adult horses that were being adopted out.

I bred my 14.2hh QH mare to a 15.1hh stud and I'm positive that my colt is going to be bigger than both of them... He's 2 years old now and already 14.2hh

mchip · 07-16-2006, 05:05 PM

my husbands QH's is a solid 15.3H and dam was 15.1h and stallion was 14.3h (so i have been told from breeder). the breeder told me that he hated that mare b/c she threw HUGE babies ( he was bred to do reining). so it happens.

BestofPrincess · 07-17-2006, 02:23 AM

easy way is dam or sire was lacking key nutritions as a foal and never reached full hight... I think Sterling Silver is only 15hh but all his foals are taller than him by the time they are 2 yrs old, and this is out of smaller mares

madvoice · 07-17-2006, 03:14 AM

Yep its more than possible. With advances in nutrition and feeding techniques most progeny end up bigger than parents (though there are exceptions). Spook's dam was 12.2hh. His sire is 14hh. He is likely to even outgrow his sire at the rate he's going.

07-16-2006, 12:00 PM	#1
Lindsayanne Senior Member+ Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Joplin, MO Posts: 9,750 Images: 394	breeding for height without outcrossing Can it be done? Say you have a population of horses that are 14.2 to 15.2 hands; with selective breeding is it possible, over generations, that you could ever start to consistently produce foals in that population that would hit the 16 hand mark? How rare is it for an offspring to be taller than either parent, and how likely is it for them to be able to pass that height? (I'm not obsessed with the big horse fad, but know if I want to breed sporthorses out of blood-registered curlies it's going to be a real challenge to get the size needed to be competitive. My curlies are on the big side, but they are definitely the exception to the rule) __________________ Bashkir Curly Poster Child NE Prime Time Regal - 2006 ABCR National Champion & 2008 Breyerfest Demo Horse HAVE YOU SEEN MY STOLEN PONY EXPRESS HORSE TRAILER?*

07-16-2006, 01:57 PM	#3
JBandRio Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NC Posts: 22,505 Images: 139 Blog Entries: 12	Yep, it's certainly possible. You just start breeding the biggest to the biggest, and cull anything that isn't at least as tall as the tallest parent. You will just have to start with choosing stallions (I'm assuming you have the mares?) that are known for throwing size, regardless of the mare's size. Those fillies would be bred again to stallions known for throwing size, regardless of the mare's height. Culling will have to be hard and very objective, and that means it will take you many generations to start reliably producing sizable Curly SH's. __________________ - JB Acres, owned and operated by Dynamite animals. - It's a wonder horses as a whole don't just kill us all and be done with their misery. - Keep your voice soothing and low - even when things get western (buck1173) - Rio feels good - he bounced an in-and-out

07-16-2006, 02:05 PM	#4
Heavenly Jumper Senior Member+ Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Camden County GA Posts: 15,313 Images: 1321 Blog Entries: 267	^^^ Yeah. What JB said. It would definitely be possible, just time consuming. __________________ My husband is HOME! .'~'. epi tan e epi tas .'~'.

07-16-2006, 04:59 PM	#6
Appylvr Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: California Posts: 6,989 Images: 307	The opposite happens in the wild... like the Mustangs and Chincoteauge Ponies... They stay small because there isn't enough nourishment in their feed to make them bigger. I've seen Mustang foals that were adopted out and with the right feed in them grow up to be much bigger than the adult horses that were being adopted out. I bred my 14.2hh QH mare to a 15.1hh stud and I'm positive that my colt is going to be bigger than both of them... He's 2 years old now and already 14.2hh __________________ ~Tonya~ Teak~Coco~Baylee~Dolly~Rosie~Shilo~Jazzy A solitary ride through the bush is more beneficial than six months with the best psychiatrist

07-16-2006, 05:05 PM	#7
mchip Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: NC Posts: 320 Images: 34	my husbands QH's is a solid 15.3H and dam was 15.1h and stallion was 14.3h (so i have been told from breeder). the breeder told me that he hated that mare b/c she threw HUGE babies ( he was bred to do reining). so it happens. __________________ mchip

07-16-2006, 12:06 PM	#2
tightpaycheck Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: NE PA Posts: 1,808 Images: 2	I am going to say it has to be possible..all horses came from the same (small) prehistoric origins. But it will take quite a few generations of crossing the biggest to the biggest and not breeding the smaller horses. All without sacrificing quality conformation or movement. That's going to be a real challenge!

07-16-2006, 04:37 PM	#5
montana and me3 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New york Posts: 900 Images: 72	my friends horse bob is 16.2 hh and his dad was 15.2 and his mom was 15.2 and all of his relatives were around there....

07-17-2006, 02:23 AM	#8
BestofPrincess Senior Member+ Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: USA MD Posts: 5,175 Images: 575 Blog Entries: 14	easy way is dam or sire was lacking key nutritions as a foal and never reached full hight... I think Sterling Silver is only 15hh but all his foals are taller than him by the time they are 2 yrs old, and this is out of smaller mares __________________ tjitske you never deserved to lose a foal 5/31/05 dolly we pray for you and your lost foal 7/26/05 Duct tape is the new glue

07-17-2006, 03:14 AM	#9
madvoice Senior Member+ Join Date: May 2004 Location: Humpty Doo, Northern Territory, Australia Posts: 9,426 Images: 281	Yep its more than possible. With advances in nutrition and feeding techniques most progeny end up bigger than parents (though there are exceptions). Spook's dam was 12.2hh. His sire is 14hh. He is likely to even outgrow his sire at the rate he's going. __________________ Sep 1997 - 15 Jan 2006 ~Fry Baby I'll Miss You~ I'm not a complete idiot.. Some parts are missing I was too busy admiring the inside of my eyelids when HGS hit 3 million posts..

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