Breed Biased Judges

Bratmare · 10-26-2009, 08:08 PM

IMHO

You paid for the opinion, don't complain.

And I do have to brag on one judge. She was a very fair judge who would place you first in one class and last in another based on what that class was asking for. I was placing somewhere in the middle that day but I did have one kick patootie round.

It was a pleasure class and it was between me and an arab. We were just about equal. The show was hosted by an arab organization and the arab placed first. The judge came up and apologized and said there was no good way to break our tie and since it was an arab show and my horse was wonderful for his breed standard he just wasn't arab enough to win it. I completely agreed with her. If its a quarter hosted show and its between a quarter and an arab I would expect the quarter to place first. To me its partially politeness.

stephanie · 10-26-2009, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinandslide

you can certainly have bias towards type in the dressage ring...Regarding movement and "look"...good judges it shouldnt matter, but Ive run across a small number who just cant be pleased if they dont"like" your horse and the way he goes.

Sorry I should have worded that better. You can have bias in dressage but in my opinion it is much harder to say, I like morgans, here is a morgan they will be first. Because there are so many different elements being judged and the judge most likely isn't going to remember every little score they give out especially because dressage only has one rider in the ring at a time. So if they are judging a class of 10, and this same judge as above sees a morgan coming next (lets just say they are the 6th pair to go), it is going to be harder for the judge to give all the right scores to make that horse go into first. Now it is very possible that it could happen, and I HAVE seen it happen, but it isn't as likely as in an eq class.

bright-treasure · 10-27-2009, 12:27 AM

I just wonder how you can judge the others rides in a class like WP or HUS when you are exhibiting yourself? In those classes, my focus is totally on my horse and the horses before me for an eventual passing. In none of my WP classes I was able to tell in the end if the judging was fair or not, simply because I did not see how the other horses were doing all the time.
I can evaluate the quality of the exhibited horses in the class while warming up, but I never know if this horse has had a break, has a super steady headset, is speeding up while being passet etc. etc.

When I know my horse had a great go, didn't place as expected and perhaps friends tell me they would have seen my horse placing better, then I always speak to the judge and ask for the reason on this judging. And I ALWAYS got a plausible and comprehensible answer, if it was on a APHA show or an open show.

At the recent Championships it was the reverse case as the OP is talking about. My horse is not that supernice flat and slowgoing WP horse, he has a lot of activity in his hind leg and drive in his movement. In a class of over 30 WP horses I would not even have imagined to hit the finals, but I placed a great 6., leaving some superior WP's behind me. Of course I was excited, and i went asking the judges on why they placed my horse so high. They said that there were some great movers in this class but did not show according to their potential, speeded up while passing, had a break or were generally not steady. My horse was super steady and consistent all the way long, with no rein contact, concentrated and keeping his speed througout all the gaits.
There even placed 2 Ponies with equal quality like my Paint in the Top 15 among all hose nice WP Quarters

Martini! · 10-27-2009, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bright-treasure

I just wonder how you can judge the others rides in a class like WP or HUS when you are exhibiting yourself? In those classes, my focus is totally on my horse and the horses before me for an eventual passing. In none of my WP classes I was able to tell in the end if the judging was fair or not, simply because I did not see how the other horses were doing all the time.
I can evaluate the quality of the exhibited horses in the class while warming up, but I never know if this horse has had a break, has a super steady headset, is speeding up while being passet etc. etc.

When I know my horse had a great go, didn't place as expected and perhaps friends tell me they would have seen my horse placing better, then I always speak to the judge and ask for the reason on this judging. And I ALWAYS got a plausible and comprehensible answer, if it was on a APHA show or an open show.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Honestly, there are biased judges, but you, your friends, and your trainer, etc are also biased. I see so many people complaining about judges being biased for so many things...well they're human, and that makes it possible that your ride may not have been quite as good as you thought or your friends told you either. That, and if you take another breed to a breed sponsored show, is it really that shocking that you don't place as you might have hoped?

That being said, I do agree that there are indeed biased judges, it's human nature. I showed intercollegiately where you have to ride a random horse that is NOT yours or your choice, and believe me, I was not always pleased with the judging. Oftentimes judges would place classes according to horse and not rider (which totally defeats the purpose of IHSA) but that's what they're used to doing, so it was hard to find judges who wouldn't do that.

horsegal301 · 10-27-2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KristinJ

One of the reasons I don't show and I don't take it seriously when I do, unless its stadium jumping, or dressage. Especially smaller shows, it's SO Biased, on breed, color, wealth, who knows who etc. Quite sad, but it's just that way.

Not just smaller shows. Almost every show is biased based on breed, color, wealth, and politics, from rinky-d i n k (don't know why that was censored) backyard shows to breed shows and A rated Hunt Seat circuits.

Canadian Sage · 10-28-2009, 10:01 AM

It happens. We went to a show (I show paints and QH's) and the judge favored the arabians (nothing against it at all as everyone has their own personal preference), so no matter what the arabs placed higher even if there was a few other breeds that went better than the arabs. At this particular show I probably had some of my better goes undersaddle but you know what, I used it as a schooling/learning experience and had fun!

BUT, its a gamble.....one day the judge might like your horse, the next day they might not.

John · 10-28-2009, 02:35 PM

I took a group of 4Hers to show where there were about ten other clubs competing. They were told to watch the judge and see if they could pick up any tips. In the first showmanship class they watched the judge stroke each horses neck and then look at his hand as part of his check for turn out. The girls went into a quick huddle then went racing out to the barn where they shared their one bottle of show sheen and polished all of their horses necks in the same spot that the judge was checking. They all placed well!

spinandslide · 10-28-2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John

I took a group of 4Hers to show where there were about ten other clubs competing. They were told to watch the judge and see if they could pick up any tips. In the first showmanship class they watched the judge stroke each horses neck and then look at his hand as part of his check for turn out. The girls went into a quick huddle then went racing out to the barn where they shared their one bottle of show sheen and polished all of their horses necks in the same spot that the judge was checking. They all placed well!

LOL John! ingenuituve girls for sure..

I remember doing that at some of our 4-h shows when I was a kid...

LippittMorgans7 · 10-28-2009, 02:54 PM

That's happened to me before. I show a Morgan and it seems much of the time Morgans are not the favored breed of the judges. The horse I show is flashy and snorty, but she's not a QH, which is the breed I've seen place more firsts than most others. It's stange but true. I guess you just have to go and have fun with your horse no matter what color ribbon you get in the end of your class, and you just can't take it too seriously.

John · 10-28-2009, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinandslide

LOL John! ingenuituve girls for sure..

I remember doing that at some of our 4-h shows when I was a kid...

I dont know if it was the show shene or the big smile that they all had when they were showing!!

10-26-2009, 08:08 PM	#31
Bratmare Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: I live in the middle of no where. Posts: 908	IMHO You paid for the opinion, don't complain. And I do have to brag on one judge. She was a very fair judge who would place you first in one class and last in another based on what that class was asking for. I was placing somewhere in the middle that day but I did have one kick patootie round. It was a pleasure class and it was between me and an arab. We were just about equal. The show was hosted by an arab organization and the arab placed first. The judge came up and apologized and said there was no good way to break our tie and since it was an arab show and my horse was wonderful for his breed standard he just wasn't arab enough to win it. I completely agreed with her. If its a quarter hosted show and its between a quarter and an arab I would expect the quarter to place first. To me its partially politeness. __________________ I am not suffering from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it. I hit GOLD!!!!! I've been GOBLED!!!! And I can't spell it! In my world everyone is a unicorn, they eat butterflies and poop rainbows.

10-27-2009, 12:27 AM	#33
bright-treasure Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 236 Images: 5	I just wonder how you can judge the others rides in a class like WP or HUS when you are exhibiting yourself? In those classes, my focus is totally on my horse and the horses before me for an eventual passing. In none of my WP classes I was able to tell in the end if the judging was fair or not, simply because I did not see how the other horses were doing all the time. I can evaluate the quality of the exhibited horses in the class while warming up, but I never know if this horse has had a break, has a super steady headset, is speeding up while being passet etc. etc. When I know my horse had a great go, didn't place as expected and perhaps friends tell me they would have seen my horse placing better, then I always speak to the judge and ask for the reason on this judging. And I ALWAYS got a plausible and comprehensible answer, if it was on a APHA show or an open show. At the recent Championships it was the reverse case as the OP is talking about. My horse is not that supernice flat and slowgoing WP horse, he has a lot of activity in his hind leg and drive in his movement. In a class of over 30 WP horses I would not even have imagined to hit the finals, but I placed a great 6., leaving some superior WP's behind me. Of course I was excited, and i went asking the judges on why they placed my horse so high. They said that there were some great movers in this class but did not show according to their potential, speeded up while passing, had a break or were generally not steady. My horse was super steady and consistent all the way long, with no rein contact, concentrated and keeping his speed througout all the gaits. There even placed 2 Ponies with equal quality like my Paint in the Top 15 among all hose nice WP Quarters __________________ Bright-Treasure.ch -- About "A Bright Treasure", 98 APH gelding Treasure-Arts.ch.vu* -- My Photo Gallery

10-28-2009, 02:54 PM	#39
LippittMorgans7 Full Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 144 Images: 38	That's happened to me before. I show a Morgan and it seems much of the time Morgans are not the favored breed of the judges. The horse I show is flashy and snorty, but she's not a QH, which is the breed I've seen place more firsts than most others. It's stange but true. I guess you just have to go and have fun with your horse no matter what color ribbon you get in the end of your class, and you just can't take it too seriously. __________________ Horses are afraid of two things: Things that move. And things that don't. Skyway Jamelle: Sporthorse-type Morgan mare

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10-28-2009, 02:35 PM	#37
John Senior Member+ Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 3,747 Images: 60	I took a group of 4Hers to show where there were about ten other clubs competing. They were told to watch the judge and see if they could pick up any tips. In the first showmanship class they watched the judge stroke each horses neck and then look at his hand as part of his check for turn out. The girls went into a quick huddle then went racing out to the barn where they shared their one bottle of show sheen and polished all of their horses necks in the same spot that the judge was checking. They all placed well!