[shell]

There is a *Witez II preservation society. I have a black double *Witez II great granddaughter. She is also *Bask bred, who is also Polish. My mare has Egyptian blood also. So, it looks like your mare is a mix of Polish and Egyptian, like mine. Beauty and brains!!
The other horses you mentioned are Egyptian.
The previous owners should have told you she was not straight Egyptian though.

http://www.witez.com/

[HorseCrazy1981]

Ok so I looked at the pyramid society again. The horses that they have in their database that are also in her pedigree are Char Sirgem, Fa-Rousse, and Prince Ebony. The horses I couldn't find were Fadya, Mi Serr, Rodah, Golden Star, Kaylene, Ibn Shahrah, Mona, Aalran, Malak, Gesakkla, and Yunya Sitt. These are just the horses that are on her papers 4 & 5 generations back. Just throwing these names out there, maybe someone has heard of them.

[HorseCrazy1981]

Anyone???

[Sandra-A1]

Sorry, I have not heard of Fadya, Mi Serr, Rodah, Golden Star, Kaylene, Ibn Shahrah, Mona, Aalran, Malak, Gesakkla, and Yunya Sitt.
Your best bet is to post the list on one of the Arabian Forums because if anyone on one has a registry cd they can look the names up for you.

[HorseCrazy1981]

I can't get into the forums at the AHR flaming_ , for some reason they aren't emailing me my password. I am a member, just can't remember my password, grr...

[susan rd]

I hope I get this right, I am a newbie posting for the first time. If you can give me your horses registered name, and number I am sure I can tell you about her pedigree. But if she is older than 4 then I would need the registered names and numbers of her parents.

[susan rd]

I looked up Prince Ebony - black stallion born May 7, 1968. Bred by Dr. Ruth Schmidt, sold to Newton Enterprises (I presume this is Wayne Newton) who was breeding black Arabians. Then three years later sold back to Dr. Schmidt.

Prince Ebony is best described as an Egyptian cross with Kellogg breeding. His sire SA Zarka has three lines to Egyptians and one to Davenport/Hamidie Society. SA Zarka's sire is Fad Zarka, bred by Henry Babson and descends from horses imported directly from Egypt. Head sire was the lovely *Fadl, and Babson horses are known for their sweet disposition and good sense.

(Prince Ebony's pedigree is on allbreedpedigree.com)

The third pure Egyptian in his sire's pedigree is *Zarife, bred by Prince Mohammed Aly of Egypt and imported by Brown. *Zarife was born April 30, 1928 and was a son of "the most beautiful horse in the world" this being of course Mahroussa who was out of Negma (who lived to be 30 years old) *Zarife was sold to Traveler's Rest, the famous breeding establishment of Dickinson, then went to the Van Vleet Ranch where for years he was featured in exhibitions at the ranch. *Zarife was also used as a working horse in the high Rockies.

Now we come to the fourth grandparent of SZ Zarka and here is where we run into non-Egyptian blood. *Zarife was bred to a mare named Sawa, and their foal Sarifa became the dam of SA Zarka, sire of Prince Ebony. Sawa has a great deal of Davenport blood. His book about going to the desert to purchase Arabian horses is fascinating. One celebrated mare was taken by force with guns as her owner reneged on their agreement to sell her. Sawa also has lines to Crabbet horses, the famous Arabians of the Blunts Crabbet Park, later operated by their daughter Lady Wentworth.

There are also other English horses other than those of Crabbet, whose stories are fascinating. *Leopard (given as a gift to President Grant), the tough *Naomi, etc. Sawa also has several crosses to some of the horses brought to America by the Hamidie Hippodrome Society. Their story is incredible.

Going now to the dam of Prince Ebony, she is Gaydora - a cross of mostly Kellogg and Davenport. Gaydora's sire is Gayr, bred by the Draper's well-known Jedel Ranch. They had imported Gayr's dam, *Barakat from Spain. She was used in a movie starring Tyrone Power. Some of the horses in *Barakat's pedigree were imported from Poland.

*Barakat was bred to the lovely grey Ronek to produce Gayr. Ronek was bred by Kelloggs (the cereal king) who imported Ronek's sire and dam from Lady Wentworth's Crabbet Park in England along with other Arabians. *Raseyn, his sire became very famous, and was photographed with many movie stars. When the Kellogg Ranch was turned over to the Army, and *Raseyn became sterile, the army was going to kill him. Alice Payne fought to save his life, appealing to many prominent citizens and she was successful. *Raseyn lived out his days at her Asil ranch alongside his half-brother the famous *Raffles. After Mrs. Payne had built *Raseyn up, the army tried to get him back, and once again she had to enlist her friends to keep *Raseyn.

*Raseyn was a son of the world famous Skowronek, bred in Russian Poland at the famous Antoniny stud. Two full brothers were sold to Russia, and Skowronek was purchased by an American, Walter Winans by chance. He heard that the old Auroch bull at the Antoniny park was going to be killed as he had been fatally injuring his young sons. Winans immediately wired them that he wanted to be the one to kill the auroch and would pay good money to do so. Now, the auroch was extinct everywhere else, these were the only animals of their kind left.

After the hunt, Winans was interested in purchasing a carriage and 4 half-Arabians to pull it. He wanted the coachman too, and the deal fell thru. So Count Potocki said why not buy a nice Arabian colt instead. Winans walked past the colt and suddenly stopped. "I'll take that one." And so Skowronek was off to England to be used as a model for Winans sculpture. From there this most prepotent stallion of all time eventually was purchased by Mr. Clark who had him at a show. At this same show was Lady Wentworth, and the rest is history. Skowronek sons and daughters were exported all over the world.

Getting back to Gayr, the grandsire of Prince Hallany, he was bred to a mare named Mira. Most of her ancesters can also be found in the lineage of Sawa (SA Zarka's grandmother) as the stallion Stambul appears in both sire and dam lines of Prince Ebony's pedigree. That is, mostly Davenport with lines to Hamidie, non-Crabbet english, Crabbet, etc.

While having just three Egyptian lines, your horse still has a lot of good individuals in her pedigree. There is a lot of CMK, this is a term for Crabbet, Maynesboro, and Kellogg breeding, and these are horses you can actually ride, not the airy ***** delicate show horses of today.

For more information on the ancestors mentioned, do a google.com search for cmk, maynesboro, crabbet, davenport, kellogg, etc. You may have to add Arabian after but you will find a great deal of information.

[susan rd]

Hey I didn't swear! The term airy-fair is a commonly used phrase for delicate Arabian horses. No substance, but very ethereal.

[Laceycowgrl]

This site is awsome for research or just for fun. It's called the All breed database. You can add your horse into the database (or search for a specifec horse), and search way, way, way back! www.allbreedpedigree.com

[susan rd]

Yes, allbreedpedigree.com is invaluable, especially as the Arabian Datasource literally stops in the middle of nowhere when some pedigrees come up. If it doesn't go to the desert, then no further information is given.