[seaglimmerfarms]

I had to look because I heard about them beginning the round up of the legendary stallion "Cloud" and herds in his home range starting today. According to the BLM they're doing this to help meet a 1,000 horse quota for the National Adopt A Wild Horse and Burro day adoption. I wanted to see just how popular wild horse adoptions are considering that's A LOT of horses and a lot of older horses potentially being sent straight to killer buyers (horses like Cloud and Plenty Coups that fit the age bracket)

What I found is that less then 1/3 of the horses on their website have bids on them. Even fewer have more then 1 bid on them. Bidding ends in 13 hours.
So my question is... What the heck is the BLM thinking?! The injunction filed by the Cloud Foundation to stay the round ups and furthering a legal battle that's been on going to protect these horses (BLM also claims the territory cannot sustain those wild horses but has done nothing to limit cattle grazing permits in the same area. PLUS photographic evidence indicates all the horses on the range are in amazing physical condition and the range itself has been green all summer with abundant rains)

Horses like this beautiful filly (https://www.blm.gov/adoptahorse/horse.php?horse_id=3065) are on the BLM website. What a face. Sadly enough her future is at stake since the BLM has been having talks of euthanizing horses that don't sell after three adoption attempts and euthanizing horses that sit in their holding facilities. Currently the BLM has over 30,000 horses in private holding facilities. More horses then what are currently roaming wild. At local in person adoption events the bids started at $25 with the majority of the horses being NS.

What a sad fate for the last living icons of the American West.

[VivaLasVegas]

Ok let me put out there the facts on this whole ordeal.

The BLM is rounding up these horses because there is not enough room, not to meet the 1,000 horse goal for Sept 26. The reason for National Wild Horse Adoption Day is to bring public awareness to the Wild Horse and Burro Program.

These horses are not sold to kill buyers, "without limitation" is still with some. You do have to make an agreement that you will not sell the horse for slaughter, but in reality, its your horse. Heck, I could sell Vegas if I wanted to (not that I would).

In the areas where the horses currently are, there is lush vegetation, but have you seen the overgrazed areas? Why would a horse stay where there is no food? The area IS being over grazed.
The contracts made with ranchers were in place long before these horses were protected. They are not going anywhere so we need to get over it.

As for what the BLM is thinking? The wild horse population doubles ever four years. That means the nearly 200 horses now, will be 400 in 2013, the land CANNOT sustain that amount of horses. Period.

The BLM had mentioned the idea of putting down some (like 2,000) horses last year. However, they are not going to be doing so. As of now 3 strikers go to long term care to either be bought, or to live out their lives in large pastures.

There are an estimated 36,000 roaming wild this year, compared to 32,000 is holding

But your right, this is a sad fate for these horses. So try to make a difference. Adopt or volunteer to help them get homes. Stop listening to the prepaganda put out there by special interest groups that are lining thier pockets with your donations, and get the real facts on these horses.

[seaglimmerfarms]

I've been following the Pryor horse herd for a long long time. There's 190 horses give or take in the range. They're removing 70 give or take which whittles it down to 120 with mares that will be given injectible contraception which will further limit the number of new horses being born into the viable herd population. These horses have been there for hundreds of years. It's not like they popped up over night and you would think that since the 1971 bill passed into law someone would of had the bright idea to limit or reduce the number of cattle allowed to graze on ANNUAL grazing permits. Or am I wrong on the grazing permits?

I agree with you on a lot, but the point is that the Pryor horses are one of the purest Spanish strains still left in existence and the removal of key players (such as Cloud and his ladies ect) is going to have a devastating effect. It's not that the "special interest" groups are even asking for donations. They're asking for the BLM to be reasonable and remove these horses over a 2 year period instead of crippling the genetic population. Even geneticists from Texas A&M have cautioned that directly removing the 70 is going to be horrible.

The latest press release specifically stated that the BLM was wanting to have these horses available for their National Adopt a Wild Horse and Burro adoption day thing. So just who's trying to line who's pockets? With the public outcry against these particular horses being available it's no doubt that bidding will be monumental for these horses. Especially if a horse like Cloud or Plenty Coups is offered for sale.

Have you seen auction reports? There's A LOT of branded BLM horses that have wound up in kill pens lately and many of them wind up going to the chute. And like I said... The 1,000 horse quota for this years National Wild Horse event is a high quota. That's a lot of horses potentially being no sales and then potentially being put into harm's way.

Is it propaganda? Maybe. Is there viable concerns for these horses? Oh gosh yes. Should they be removed? No not cold turkey like this. Should Cloud be returned, once again, to his herd? Yep.

Just my two cents. In the mean time horses like that lovely silver bay filly (listed as chestnut) is available without an opening bid which means you could potentially take home that lovely creature for $125 and a lot of patience!

[VivaLasVegas]

On the cattle contracts - yes they are annual, but please keep in mind, the cattle industry is a money making business. Wild horses eat money. Sad but true.

As to whether the Pryor herd is the "most spanish", that is up for debate. I could take a couple Spanish Colonial Horses, turn them out, and call the next years foal crop true spanish mustangs too. Maybe chincoteague ponies have the most spanish blood considering they were never crossed with anything (or so legend goes).

Yes, these horses will be available for the Sept 26th adoption, maybe it can help to keep SOME money in the program. And trust me, Cloud will not pop up in there.

Yes, some horses end up in the kill pen. I could send mine if I wanted, it is after all, my mustang to do with as I please. I have seen $50,000 horses end up at auction too, it the way of the horse world.

And yes, a lot of what certain groups put out there is propaganda and flat out lies. Yes, we are all concerned about these horses. Yes, they should be removed (As for rounding up over the next few years, lovely idea (I agree), but honestly not practical with the budget). But why is Cloud more deserving to go back out than any other stallion?

As for taking that filly home, I would if I had room, but my stalls are already filled up with BLM mustangs. She is available if you want her though

Believe me, I do love these horses, and do whatever in my power to help. I would love for things to be better, and I am trying to make it better. I just go nuts when people say things like "well they shouldn't do that" or "let them be free" but do NOTHING to help them (not saying you).

[seaglimmerfarms]

If I wasn't bound for Canada by the end of the year and it wouldn't cost $4000 to haul her up by Christmas I'd snag her in a heart beat. I'm sorely tempted but it wouldn't be fair to her and I doubt the BLM would be thrilled with the idea.

You're right about the slaughter auctions, but you'd think that horses as legendary as mustangs; our last true look into the west and the symbol of the general American dream as a whole would be better protected then winding up as cheval tar tar on the plate of someone in Europe.

DNA testing has proven that the Pryor horses have some of the purest bloodlines without infusions from "modern" breeds such as Thoroughbreds, Arabians, Quarter Horses etc.

Technically you could do that and technically Chincoteagues could be argued as such but the truth is no one really knows where they came from and there's some speculation that the original ponies were hidden there during the revolutionary war to evade taxes and stock slaughter by British forces. I remember reading that somewhere. Of course the more romantic idea is that they were shipwrecked off a Spanish Galleon and of course what you see today is a representation of old world Iberian horses. Is it possible? Sure. Anything's possible. I love them all dearly regardless!

Cloud is a proven stallion. His offspring are sound, well conformed, and colorful. Same with the stallion Plenty Coups. You would think that by releasing horses of proven genetic material that you'd ensure the genetic safety and soundness of the herd? Why remove proven stock that have contributed greatly to the genetics viability of the herd? Should it ONLY be Plenty Coups and Cloud? Of course not. There will be other younger stallions released as well. But to upset the range by taking away it's key players would be ridiculous and cruel at best. Especially when no greater life then wasting away in some BLM holding facility awaits them. In addition a high selling point for Pryor horses could be "this is your opportunity to own a dun/roan/cremello/palomino/grulla daughter/son/grand daughter/grand son of the legendary stallion Cloud/Plenty Coups". As a marketing tool his release is viable. Removing him only leads to shaking heads. Especially if he winds up crammed in a holding facility or worse sold to slaughter by way of the "law" mandating that older horses can be sold without contract.

The only other fate I could think of for Cloud would be sending him to a facility like the Kentucky Horse Park to live out his days in luxury as the legend that he's become. It's a far cry and a much more sad outlook to his life then him being allowed to live and die free. But more acceptable then being crowded away as a number in isolation.

[VivaLasVegas]

Yeah I don't think the BLM would be happy about that. Bummer.

I agree with the slaughter thing, but its someone propperty, so theres not much that can be done.

It makes ya think it might be fun if we could test the Chincoteagues though...

I agree that Cloud is a proven stallion, but just as you said, there are plenty of other studs out there that have proven themselves as well. To be honest, the BLM takes the horses that are not as "nice"... Take Mesteno for example, the BLM chose to let him stay wild because of what a fine stallion he was. I highly doubt a horse like Cloud will end up at an adoption. I just didn't want to hear "because he's on tv or he's famous" as the reason for letting him go.

[seaglimmerfarms]

huge bummer. I love her face and she looks like she'd be fun to play with even maybe dressage. What a lovely little girl. I hope someone adopts her and gives her a great home. She's stunning!

Agreed. You'd think the BLM would have a "buy back" option. But then again there are way too many horses in holding pens across the USA to really have a viable buy back option. It just makes me sick. I hate slaughter, but with the over abundance of horses what are you going to do? Unfortunately there's no quick answer for blatant ignorance in people that compels them to continue breeding horridly conformed stock. I'm not saying that those horses don't deserve to live, but that they don't deserve to be born. See my picture? It's far more kind not to create them into a world there's no market waiting for them other then the kill chute. That turns my stomach.

They should test the Chincoteagues, but remember part of their marketing strategy is selling them as the ancestors of an ill-fated Spanish galleon not as ponies and horses being hidden out on a barrier island as refugees from the revolutionary war. I think the Revolutionary war story is awesome though so it doesn't take away from the marketability to me... But you know. Romantic legends are romantic legends. I still wanna know the answer though!

Come to think of it the BLM should eyeball and take note of the Chincoteague herd and practices surrounding it's management. There's a lot of little horses on that island in such a small area and every year they look amazing when they come in to the festival. I've gone several times and really have yet to see a poor looking animal. They have an excellent management strategy and it keeps the public happy. Interesting concept LOL!

Yeah no. The fact he's a famous TV star is the cherry on top of the cake surrounding his accomplishments as a proven range stallion that happens to have stunning sons and daughters and even carries his genes well into the further generations such as grand daughters and grand sons and great grand daughter and great grand sons. It's really remarkable how well he stamps his progeny and even THEIR progeny! Fingers crossed he's released alongside Plenty Coups and the others. And hopefully they're real smart in how they select the next generations to be released out there to continue the vitality of the herd. They are greatly hindering it's genetic potential by doing what they're doing especially with the contraceptives. It's really almost reinforcing inbreeding through the herds. Not a good thing. I wish there was an alternative. I really do.

[LotsOfSavvy]

Originally Posted by seaglimmerfarms

What I found is that less then 1/3 of the horses on their website have bids on them. Even fewer have more then 1 bid on them. Bidding ends in 13 hours.

Bidding actually ends in 12 days. It just started yesterday or the day before.

The BLM will take any horse or burro back within the 1 year period you are waiting for your title. I disagree with a buy back period...very, very few horse sellers offer this...the BLM IMO functions more like a rescue. You adopt the horse. I don't know of any horse adoption agency that would refund your adoption fee if you decided you didn't want it any more.

I think some of the good stuff is that the mustang heritage foundation's Trainer Incentive Program. Really can help get these horses adopted I think if they are gentled. One of the biggest obstacles I saw with adopting my mustang wasn't the training (Because I have the experience) but the stabling requirements for an ungentled horse. Most people don't have a minimum 20' x 20' corral 6' high in their facility.

I haven't read all of the posts..I probably will later

[VivaLasVegas]

The "buy back" program would not work. There is simply not enough money.

The BLM does take notice with the practices of both sides of the island. But it is A LOT easier with a small group of horses in a small isolated area. Like the VA side, they round up the excess. They are testing birth control for mares like the Maryland side. The Maryland horses can be givin the bc every year though, the BLM can't afford round up every herd every year to administer this. Right now PZP is only effective if administered at a certain time in a mare's cycle and wares off funny (like 95% the first year, 50% the next year, 16% the third, and 2% the fourth) The other problem is that if it wears off in the late fall/winter, mares go right into season resulting in foals being born too early/late.
As for the ponies looking great - There is plenty of vegetation there and they have adapted to drinking the salt water, plus there is no real competion for food except for those little deer. Out west there is little food, water is scarce, and there is plenty of grazing competion from native wildlife and livestock. I have seen horses that come in from emergency gathers in the fall, and it is not a pretty sight.

LotsOfSavvy -

Agreed on the gentling of horses - we are doing that on the east coast too, but at this point there is only a limited amount of trainers. It is making a huge difference. We have actually been doing mini adoptions of gentled horses and have had a 100% adoption rate!

You haven't missed much... just me bantering like an idiot

[Debbie z.]

Originally Posted by seaglimmerfarms

huge bummer. I love her face and she looks like she'd be fun to play with even maybe dressage. What a lovely little girl. I hope someone adopts her and gives her a great home. She's stunning!

Agreed. You'd think the BLM would have a "buy back" option. But then again there are way too many horses in holding pens across the USA to really have a viable buy back option. It just makes me sick. I hate slaughter, but with the over abundance of horses what are you going to do? Unfortunately there's no quick answer for blatant ignorance in people that compels them to continue breeding horridly conformed stock. I'm not saying that those horses don't deserve to live, but that they don't deserve to be born. See my picture? It's far more kind not to create them into a world there's no market waiting for them other then the kill chute. That turns my stomach.

They should test the Chincoteagues, but remember part of their marketing strategy is selling them as the ancestors of an ill-fated Spanish galleon not as ponies and horses being hidden out on a barrier island as refugees from the revolutionary war. I think the Revolutionary war story is awesome though so it doesn't take away from the marketability to me... But you know. Romantic legends are romantic legends. I still wanna know the answer though!

Come to think of it the BLM should eyeball and take note of the Chincoteague herd and practices surrounding it's management. There's a lot of little horses on that island in such a small area and every year they look amazing when they come in to the festival. I've gone several times and really have yet to see a poor looking animal. They have an excellent management strategy and it keeps the public happy. Interesting concept LOL!

Yeah no. The fact he's a famous TV star is the cherry on top of the cake surrounding his accomplishments as a proven range stallion that happens to have stunning sons and daughters and even carries his genes well into the further generations such as grand daughters and grand sons and great grand daughter and great grand sons. It's really remarkable how well he stamps his progeny and even THEIR progeny! Fingers crossed he's released alongside Plenty Coups and the others. And hopefully they're real smart in how they select the next generations to be released out there to continue the vitality of the herd. They are greatly hindering it's genetic potential by doing what they're doing especially with the contraceptives. It's really almost reinforcing inbreeding through the herds. Not a good thing. I wish there was an alternative. I really do.

Very well said!! Genetically famous for outstanding offspring! Not because he's been on tv.LMAO!! This whole round up is a joke. There's over 38,000 acres. The herd is not over populated and the forage is not the problem either it's all about a buck. And the buck is coming from the auctions! That money doesn't get donated to any foundation it goes to greed and heartless people. It's been public knowledge their targeting Cloud and off spring. Well keep him in your prayers. Kids should play in their own sandboxes.