[Eventer98]

I've posted this before, but I know we have a lot of new members, so I'm just putting it out there again.

I'm trying to retrain my sister's draft/Qh cross. We've had him for about two years now, and almost the entire time we've had him, he's had a balking problem. When we first bought him, it was a struggle to get him to canter (tons of leg, and usually at least one tap with a stick). We excused it because he was underweight when we got him, not fit, etc. but we always *made* him do what we asked. Over the next nine months, he got worse and worse about refusing to go foreward. He started by dropping down from the canter to the trot and then refusing to canter again. Then he wouldn't canter at all. Then he would drop from the trot to the walk. Finally, it got to the point where you could get on, walk three steps, and then he would just stop. **** or high water wouldn't move him. If you tried to force the issue with a crop or dressage whip, he would just buck or rear in place.

The vet looked at him, said he really couldn't find anything wrong, but would inject his hocks in case that was the problem. With his hocks injected, he moved better, but still wouldn't work for a rider. My mom did some research and decided he had epssm, so we changed his diet, and his muscling improved, but he still couldn't be ridden.

At the begginning of last summer, I completely re-started him, with leading, lunging, and I re-backed him bareback in a halter. He lunges like a dream, ponies, and I can consistantly get him to trot when I'm riding him, but not for long periods of time. (I have to stop him before he decides to stop himself) I was lunging him in sidereins to help him muscle up, but everyone here talked me out of it as it really wasn't helping. (OT to everyone who posted on that thread, I appreciate everyone taking the time to pound it into my thick head ) Anyway, he doesn't do anything more than trot undersaddle. He will canter for a rider on the lungeline, but my sister is afraid to canter on the lungeline (they've never heard of twenty meter circles at her barn ) and she refuses to learn how to lunge, so I can't ride him on the line. She also doesn't like being ponied off my horse.

So basically, I'm asking for new ideas to get him to accept the idea that he is a riding horse, and I'd like to hear if you think I'm doing the wrong thing by lunging him and trying to get him to respond to voice commands, on the line and undersaddle.

Oh, and he's had three vets, a Reike healer and numorous experts go completely over him and find nothing wrong. We're experimenting with his diet to see if it's some kind of vitamin defficiancy, but so far the diagnosis is that he's just lazy. I would like input on different health issues that could cause this as well.

Last thing- I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to sell this horse, but he belongs to my sister, and she keeps saying she will never sell him. So if you have no other advice, do you know of any ways to convince her that if she wants a horse that she can RIDE, she needs to sell this guy?

Thanks for reading the novel

[JBandRio]

I would be highly suspicious of EPSM if things are getting this much worse instead of any better. What is his diet, and if it's recently changed, what did it used to be?

However, this caught my eye:

tons of leg, and usually at least one tap with a stick

That is the wrong thing to be doing Assume for a moment this is purely a training issue. The right thing to be doing to teach him to move off your leg is leg...leg... whip...WHIP and the last whip has to MEAN IT. To use "leg leg leg leg leg leg leg tapwiththewhip" is going to get you nothing but a horse who learns to ignore your leg.

[Tatooed Lady]

So the vet just gave the "I dunno, but let's give injections", and your mom thought EPSM....the change of diet geared toward the EPSM won't hurt...but the injections? I guess I'm confused why a vet would inject if s/he wasn't sure that the problem was even in the area? If the horse moves fine without a rider, has he been lunged with a saddle to see if there's issue with pinching or other discomfort? How about having a chiro out to see if there's any issue with his back/neck? Or how about his feet? What's the farrier say?

[Eventer98]

Originally Posted by JBandRio

I would be highly suspicious of EPSM if things are getting this much worse instead of any better. What is his diet, and if it's recently changed, what did it used to be?

He's done better with diet change, not worse. Sorry if that was confusing. He looks better, he moves better, but the riding part doesn't get better, it has just stayed the same since the diet change. These problems have gone on pretty much since we got him.

Originally Posted by JBandRio

However, this caught my eye:


That is the wrong thing to be doing Assume for a moment this is purely a training issue. The right thing to be doing to teach him to move off your leg is leg...leg... whip...WHIP and the last whip has to MEAN IT. To use "leg leg leg leg leg leg leg tapwiththewhip" is going to get you nothing but a horse who learns to ignore your leg.

Yes, I know now that we were doing the wrong thing with him, and I believe that's a part of the problem. (Not that I don't think he had this behaviour before we got him, but that certainly didn't help) As for making the whip mean it, well, he's a draft horse who figured out how strong he is. He simply refuses to go, no matter how much you "mean it" That's why I'm on here looking for new methods!

Originally Posted by Tatooed Lady

So the vet just gave the "I dunno, but let's give injections", and your mom thought EPSM....the change of diet geared toward the EPSM won't hurt...but the injections? I guess I'm confused why a vet would inject if s/he wasn't sure that the problem was even in the area? If the horse moves fine without a rider, has he been lunged with a saddle to see if there's issue with pinching or other discomfort? How about having a chiro out to see if there's any issue with his back/neck? Or how about his feet? What's the farrier say?

He drags his back when he trots, which is one reason the vet recommended injections. The horse move fine with a rider - when he goes- there's no change in his gaits. As one of my experts said, "He'd just rather not"
He lunges fine with a saddle (no change) and it's been checked.
Chiro is one thing we have not done, but it's in the works.
Feet are wonderful -except for dragging the back ones- and he's never been lame.

Thanks for the responses!