[daisymay]

i made a post on the grooming thread for dry skin,
i am wondering now if i should change my horses feed?
he gets 4 flakes of grass hay(comes with board)
and 8 pounds of safe choice a day.
i also started him on viatflex skin & weight builder,, i am using 4 oz a day for skin this i just started and will last about two months, just got it hoping it would help with his skin.
He just had his teeth done, current on worming, and is thin, and has a dull, flaky missing hair hair coat. the vet said he is allergic to something. but i dont know what it is to cause little bald spots(face,withers, tail head)
i have been feeding the grain and hay for 2-3 months, i thought i would be able to tell a difference but havent, he is blanked when the weather is cold. He has a TB build, so he is naturally thin.
I was thinking of changing to Purina Enrich 32(since i only have LMF, nutrena, and purina around my area)
and BOSS and flax seed
maybe
1 to 2 pounds of Enrich
1.5 to 2 cups of BOSS
1/2 cup of flax seed
is this a good idea whould it help. i dont think its very good to be feeding 8 pounds of grain a day for a horse that is just standing in the pasture.

[pantha11]

As far as being allergic to something that may be part of the problem...for that I would suggest you put him on...

Rosehips (Rosa canina)
A source of readily assimilated forms of vitamins, minerals and other nutrients, including – vitamins C, A, B1, B2, B3 and K, bioflavonoids (including rutin), carotenoids, tannins, calcium, magnesium, silica, phosphorous and copper.

As well as being considered a dietary supplement, rosehips are often fed to horses recuperating from illness or injury as they help to restore the immune system and aid tissue repair. Feeding them as part of the daily diet is beneficial for preventing illness. The vitamin C in rosehips acts as a natural antihistamine, which can assist the allergy-prone horse. Bioflavonoids, as well as having potent antioxidant and anti-inflammatory activity, enhance vitamin C’s ability to strengthen blood vessel walls, and this effect contributes to rosehips’ reputation for encouraging healthy hoof growth....but be aware it can sometimes make pink/white hooves to soft. Rosehips can also help alleviate gastric inflammation and diarrhoea.

Give 1 desertspoon 2 times a day in feed.

You should be able to get it from a health food shop.

[Banat]

Sounds like lice.

[JBandRio]

What is the timeline of how long you've had him vs how long his coat has been this way vs how long he's been on the current feed?

He sounds either full of parasites, or pretty nutrient-deficient.

[BettyBootsy]

1 cup of ground flaxseed a day does wonders and don't know what kind of grasses ya got but fescue grass I have seen cause lots of skin issues and I wont get into your feeding issues I will leave that to someone else. Good luck!

[daisymay]

thats the thing i cant remember excatly,
i moved to Oregon at the end of October-november, so hes been on pasture board since i moved here, he has slightly flaky skin but nothing too serious, i just noticed his coat getting worse, the last two months or so(february).
I tried Equine senior from Nov -jan, then went to this safe choice, and didnt help his weight then i put him on the 8 pounds aday the last 2 months.
He doesnt have lice, i checked, or mites(well the doc was 99percent sure,)his coat isnt as bad as if he had lice(there were alot of horses with lice at the auctions in wy) and hes starting to shed, i think its a nutrience thing.
kinda of like when i tried a cheaper band of cat food for my cats, they got a really ragged looking coat no oils, just ahh. so i changed back to Nutro and there coats are alot better, ya they have a bit of dry skin but most animals and people do.
So that is why i was trying to see if changing the feed to what i said early would help on weight gain and hair coat? i figured it wouldnt hurt right. i dont like having to feed him that much grain, all in all thoug his temperment is good, not to slugish not crazy.
o forgot to add its timithy grass hay, cant spell today sorry. they did have to get more like in January. ?

[BettyBootsy]

We got some fat TB's so no not all are skinny hard keepers. My first thought is Ulcers since ya said teeth and worming wasn't an issue but what do you call a regular worming schedule? With this issue an vet starts with teeth and worms and just cuz ya got the teeth done doesn't mean he didnt get all sharp point or didn't get em even. I know first hand dealt with it on 2 different horses and I worm more then most and had teeth done 3 month prior went to a different vet blam teeth jacked but I just paid 75 bucks and he missed sharp points and had laserations in the cheeks from his teeth and he tested parasites in his fec when I just wormed him 3weeks prior as well. Sometimes if there immune system gets down they don't fully get rid of there worm loads each time you deworm. Don't like your feed it doesn't have all your vits and minerals. Yes the Enrich 32 would be better for the vit and mineral counts alone. I would add beet pulp and rice bran for fat and for sure a cup of ground flaxseed. Let me see if I can find a good link for ground flaxseed for ya. Anyway hope ya get on track. Ulcers would be another guess which run higher in TB'sand we treat a few weeks with gastro gard then go too a preventive but preventive don't cure nor treat gastro gard treats it then once you get it healed ya go too preventive and I personally use succeed. I use it in combo with the gastro gard and then fully over too the succeed and don't have any reoccurin issues I have 10 horses on it now daily and doing awesome. You really got a few possibilities of different things going on and as suggested Vit C is a good one. Good luck and keep us posted.

[BettyBootsy]

Flaxseed for Horses!

We're very proud of the flaxseed product we have selected for use in our supplements and would like to let you know a little bit about the product we've selected.
We work with a single source for northern grown flaxseed. The product itself is a food grade full-fat milled flaxseed. A high speed micronizing process is used which keeps the meal/oil at a relatively low temperature during processing. This preserves the purity and integrity of the oil while making the proteins highly useable for equine use. None of the natural oils are removed or expelled during the process leaving all of the nutritious and desirable Omega-3 fatty acids intact! Flaxseed oil is a superior source of Omega-3 and our base product is loaded with it!
All of the flaxseed we utilize is prepared for the human food market--it's food grade material. Naturally rich in Vitamin E (an antioxidant) the product has a shelf life of a minimum of 280 days!
We're very excited about our flaxseed and the products we use it in. We think you will be as well!
There has been a dramatic increase in interest recently in both the nutritional essentiality of Omega 3 polyunsaturated fatty acids for optimal health as well as their potential in the prevention and clinical management of certain diseases.

Some of the reported benefits in the appearance and disposition of the horse are:

• Improved coat and hair appearance
• Improved hoof condition
• Decreased nervousness

Omega 3 Fatty Acids from Flaxseed show Promise in Treating:

• Thrombotic diseases, dyslipidemia, and cardia arrhythmia
• Allergic dermatitis
• Chronic arthritis
• Chronic inflammation and small airway disease in young racehorses
• Enteritis or colitis induced by bacteria, parasites, or drugs
• Clinical endotoxemia
• Neural development of foals

[BettyBootsy]

Three reasons your horse should have the health benefits of Stabilized Ground Flax.
Horse Stress, Balance, and Pregnancy – Effects of Stabilized Ground Flax

There seems to be an increasing trend towards supplements that offer a calming or soothing effect on high-strung horses. Supplementing for increased manageability is a hot topic. Some horse nutrition experts believe that equine products used for calming and soothing purposes can be compared to similar products available for humans. It is very important to use them with caution since these products have not been on the market long enough to provide long-term sound results. However, there is a plethora of scientific evidence that Omega-3 essential fatty acids have a natural “calming effect”.

Dr. Udo Erasmus, Ph.D., one of the best known health gurus today , especially concerning fat metabolism, and the author of Fats That Heal Fats That Kill – explains why. Although his explanation is a bit technical, it is important to understand how natural, proven Omega -3 fatty acids really work in the body: "Essential fatty acids are Omega-6 (linoleic acid - LA) and Omega-3 (alpha-linolenic acid - ALA). Omega-3's seem to have better benefits in terms of energy levels, cancer, high triglycerides, etc. It's the more therapeutic fat in society today. From Omega-6's and Omega-3's, the body makes derivatives, from which it makes hormone-like substances called prostaglandins. Prostaglandins come in good-guy and bad-guy varieties. Simply put, Omega-3's make the good guys that block the production of the bad guys. Omega-6's and stress will make the prostaglandin 2's; these are the bad guys. But Omega-3's will block the production of prostaglandin 2's, so they
have a remarkable calming effect. You end up with more energy from them, but you actually feel calmer."

Keeping everything in the recommended balance is one of the "basic rules" for supplementation. The consequences of the imbalance of Omega-6 to Omega-3 in the diet may show up in any number of organs and bodily functions -- but the most common are a dull coat with dry itchy skin, skin allergies (including "sweet itch"), cracking thin-walled hooves, joint stiffness, and excitability.
Hormonal problems, frequent infections, and immune deficiency also may have their roots in the imbalance of Omega-6 to Omega-3.

The fact is that your horse needs a minimum level of key fats to maintain good health. These are the essential fatty acids (EFAs) -- so named because the horse can't manufacture them in its body , making them "essential" in the diet -- linoleic acid (the Omega-6 EFAs -- found in your horse's pasture, hay and grain) and alpha-linolenic acid (the Omega-3 EFAs found in natural pasture and
flax seeds). Normally, the horse's body contains more Omega-6 than Omega-3 EFAs, so it would seem the horse's diet should match that distribution. But "normal" is somewhat misleading, and therefore the emphasis turns to increasing the level of Omega-3s in the horse's diet while maintaining a good supply of the Omega-6s. One of the safest ways to add Omega-3 to correct that imbalance is from stabilized ground flax seed.

It is safe (and recommended) to supplement mares in foal with stabilized ground flax. Pregnancy is one of the conditions most associated with Omega-3 essential fatty acid deficiency. During pregnancy the mare's body becomes deficient in Omega-3 because the fast-growing brain, eye, and sensory organs of her foal utilize all available Omega-3. Omega-3 essential fatty acids are necessary for normal growth and development and cannot be manufactured in the body.
Sufficient amounts of Omega-3 must be added to the mare's diet. After the colt is born and eating solid food, it should also get Omega-3 – with the amount adjusted according to its weight. One of the safest ways to add Omega-3 to a pregnant mare's or young foal's diet is from ground, stabilized flax seed because it is heavily tipped in favor of the Omega-3s the diet is lacking.

Have a Heart – a Healthy One That Is – With Stabilized Ground Flax Seed

If you thought you were spending too much time dwelling on what your horse should eat – RELAX – you are not alone. Truth of the matter is that there really is a lot to think about when it comes to feeding your horses. Heart health isn't just for humans anymore. Perhaps we all have either personally known horses that have suffered strokes or heard about them.
Although equine cardiac study is relatively limited, work conducted in 2002 at the University of Minnesota College of Veterinary Medicine demonstrated that horses are susceptible not only to the geriatric concerns of degenerative valve disease, fistula, and congestive heart failure, but also pericarditis, arrhythmia, and bacterial endocarditis.

Omega-3 fatty acids from plant sources, such as flax seeds, are important for a healthy heart. Flax seeds (stabilized ground flax) provide an Omega-3 fatty acid called alpha-linolenic acid (ALA), which the horse's body converts to eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA).Although there are no specific equine studies on the effect of omega-3 on equine heart disease, preliminary laboratory and human clinical scientific research points to ALA (Omega-3) as an effective stroke reducing agent. Research is also learning that ALA appears to protect the heart against arrhythmia, a decrease of the electrical stability of the heart. ALA inhibits atherosclerosis, an inflammatory condition. ALA may also be important in lowering blood triglyceride levels and because of this, it is believed to lower the risk of heart disease. It also reduces the chances of blood clots forming in the vessels. ALA may protect against sudden cardiac death.

One of the safest ways to add Omega-3 to the diet is from ground stabilized flax seed.Flax seeds are the greatest plant source of Omega-3 fatty acids (just as fish is the greatest animal source of Omega-3 fatty acids) and its presence helps balance the ratio between Omega-6 and Omega-3 fatty acids, which is vital to the immune system. Stabilized ground flax for horses is also rich in lignans, antioxidants shown to benefit the metabolic system in many animals.

Mother Nature already provides a heart-healthy diet if you stick with the best-quality pasture. According to Eleanor Kellon, DVM -- (Veterinary Editor for Horse Journal and Perfect Horse, and Renowned Equine Health Author), “... fresh grass has anywhere from a 6:1 to 20:1 ratio of Omega-3s to Omega-6s. Because they're so fragile, very little, if any, Omega3s are likely to survive hay curing. Flax for horses has an Omega-3:Omega-6 ratio of about 6:1, just what we need to replace what's missing in dried diets.” Note: Visit the Equine Cushings/Insulin Resistance Group website co-owned and monitored by Dr. Kellon
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/.

Of course, we all know that there is nothing that can substitute for a regular exercise program. Extra weight in a low-activity, unconditioned horse can also cause stress on the cardiovascular system – the same as it can do for your horse's best two legged friend – you! Enjoy exercising together and you'll both reap the benefits.

Omega-3 from Stabilized Ground Flax Seed – Good for Laminitic Horses!

Low carb. Heart healthy. These are popular terms we hear, time and again, in reference to our own health. We supplement our diets with the hope of obtaining nutritional balance perfection. But what about our best four-legged friends? Our horses' domestic diet is a far cry from that of their wild ancestors living on nothing but natural grasslands -- but so too is the type of work we expect
from them. We ask our horses to be resilient athletes, healthy producers, and relaxed companions. As we learn more about our nutritional requirements, what have we learned about our horses' needs for supplements to help them meet what we are asking of them?

A huge buzz word is "Omega-3". Just about every time you turn around you encounter one of media channels touting the super health benefits of Omega-3 essential fatty acids. This is the result of literally thousands of scientific studies done over the last 30 years concerning Omega-3 essential fatty acids. Why the buzz about Omega-3? Omega-3 essential fatty acids make up the molecules in the structure and activity of the membranes of all cells throughout the body. (Talk about affecting health from the inside out!) They are vital in the process of new tissue formation. Omega-3 fatty acids have been shown to play a part in keeping cholesterol levels low, stabilizing irregular heart beat (arrhythmia) and reducing blood pressure. In addition, they may act as blood thinners, keeping (arteries from "sticking") and their anti-inflammatory properties may be useful in treating a number of autoimmune dysfunctions as well as in easing the symptoms (sore aching joints) of arthritis.

Since Omega-3 essential fatty acids are necessary for normal growth and development and cannot be manufactured in the body (that's why they're called essential), sufficient amounts of Omega-3 must be added to the diet. One of the safest ways to add Omega-3 to the diet is from ground stabilized flax seed -- which is one of the richest known sources of Omega-3 of any plant in the world.
Flax seed naturally contains 40 percent oil, of which 55 percent is Omega -3 essential oil – ground flax seed is an excellent source indeed. Stabilized ground flax seed also contains a high amount of insoluble fiber and soluble fiber which is very high in mucilage. Flax mucilage swells and takes on a gel-like consistency that traps and suspends sand, carrying it out, helping prevent sand colic and impaction. The ground flaxseed also acts to buffer excess acid and aids in the stabilization and modulation of blood glucose. All these things help maintain optimal health.

Another area of interest is the low carbohydrate equine diet (especially the NSC - nonstructural carbohydrate - level) for horses with Cushings, Insulin Resistance, or Laminitis. The dietary management of these horses is very complex and involves controlling the simple carbohydrate level in their diet (absolutely no grain whatsoever of any type, etc.), regular exercise if they don't have laminitis already and very very strict balancing and supplementation of key minerals.

Regarding Cushings horses and whether stabilized ground flaxseed would be good for them, please see the following advice given (and printed with permission) from Eleanor Kellon, DVM -- (Veterinary Editor for Horse Journal and Perfect Horse, and Renowned Equine Health Author).

“Although ground flax has an NSC in the neighborhood of 25 percent , four to six ounces of stabilized ground flax is usually okay. Flax seed has a 4:1 (Omega-6:Omega-3) essential fatty acid ratio which is very similar to natural grasses. Horses battling laminitis, allergies or inflammatory conditions may do best on ground flax because of the high levels of omega-3 fatty acids and other anti-inflammatory components.”

[daisymay]

well i took him to the equine hospital up here to get his teeth done, it was $150, and he was sedated and done, i even got to finally see all his teeth, he said the back ones werent bad at all, he was a little uneven in the front, i think you call it a frown, but it shouldnt of caused weight loss or anything he said.
ok so ill get some purina at the end of this month hopefully and flax.
I did try him on a bag or ricebran, its a bit expensive here. i couldnt tell a difference but i probably should of tried two bags. it lasted about a month in a half.
LIke i said i will have his fecal checked next month(poor right now)
i owned him for 6 years and never had this problem.
I just said TB because most people think of TBs as tall and thin.I didnt mean underweight.He naturally isnt very wide to start with.
ya I never thought of the ulcer thing i did a few years ago because he was so hipper and spooky.now he is very relaxed kind of horse. but it could just because he is finally growing up