[Ginger_Nell]

Originally Posted by destinyfarm

I have a problem with the term "backyard breeder". Please explain what your explainations are of a "backyard breeder".

When I use the term I'm refering to people who just breed because they can, not because of anyother reason than to make a few bucks. When refering to the term for me its a person who is not breeding for quality of the breed meaning there breeding herd is not necissarily breed standard nor have the done anything or have produced anything that can go on to do something or better the breed.

• You have people who breed to better the breed or better the performance of sire/dam
• You have the people who breed for there wants and needs. Such as those who are going to breed their mare for whatever reason but are breeding it to keep and do whatever it is that they do.
• Then there are the people who breed because well they have a mare and so happen to have a stallion or have access to one so why not get them together to have some fun, we'll deal with the responisbilties later.-This in my opinion is a back yard breeder. Just some Joe out there breeding just case he can, with no plan on what to do with the foal.

Hope that helps some. I kind of confused my self after writing it but I thought I'd let you see what goes through my mind when I hear 'backyard breeder'.

[Boudiceasmom]

I am from Idaho also.I missed the report on the starved horses but unfortunately I feel it will be commonly seen on television soon. Foals are cute but alot of work and money. Anyone who decides to breed their horse really needs to consider the time and expense a pregnant mare then foal will cost them. There are all kinds of extra expenses in breeding not to mention the down time of the mare. Stud fees to a quality stallion, vet checks additional vaccines and feed are costly. also the risk of losing a mare, foal or both in the process is a real concern. 3 important question need to be considered before breeding 1) why? Just because you think a foal is adorable is not a reason to breed, they are cute for a while then they are a responsibility anyone who has had foals knows what I am talking about. Are you improving the breed or producing a desirable animal 2) can I afford the expense, what happens if the worst does, can you afford a few thousand dollars to save a mare or foal in trouble and is the horse your breeding worth it? I know my horses are priceless to me but if your looking to cover some of the expense by future sale of the foal be realistic most people don't breed horses worth thousands of dollars unless they are in the bussiness. 3) What are the plans for the foal, they do grow up and require everything your riding horse does and more, training? are you able to do it or are you planning to hire trainers They can be expensive. Then the time, 3 years of waiting to ride is a long wait. Also if you plan on selling, trained saddle horses make more money than weanlings and refer to the above training takes money. So unless it is your bussiness and the animals your breeding have a market before they are foaled, breeding is an expensive time consuming undertaking that needs serious consideration. But realistically I know too many backyard breeders that for whatever reason keep pumping out foals not one or two a year but 10 to 15 and flood the market with cheap horses driving down prices of better stock. And yes most are underfed and are denied the basics such as foot care. I have one foal this year and only because I bought the mare and surprize she foaled months later. the filly's adorable I have been lucky so far 2 months old and only one call to the vet. So far the freebie has cost me as much as I paid for her mom and I know will cost me a lot more until I decide what I am going to do with her keep or sell, right now I couldnt sell her at the price needed to break even on the vet bill and after raising her for the next 2 to 3 years plus training I highly doubt she will fetch the few thousand dollars it will cost me to see the project finnished. However she is a grulla and has good confirmation so that means that because she is a rarer color I can ask a few dollars more for her and maybe get it. No she is not reg the people didn't realize the mare was bred and have no clue which stud sired her hence no papers. Typical of irresponsible breeding programs.

[County]

Not everyone has to spend alot of money on raising foals its much more a choice they make rather then anything else. I have my own stallions so only pay stud fees if I decide to breed a mare to an outside stud. I've never found my mares need any special feeds or special vaccines.

I think I know what some mean by a " backyard breeder " but I've never found it to be one that breeds grade horses I know some with grades that take excellant care of them and I know some with reg. horses that take vry poor care of them.

But do we really want to regulate who can breed and what they can breed? I know I sure don't, not everyone wants to make money with their horses and thats not a bad thing. Not everyone wants the same thing when breeding an animal and thats not a bad thing. Some people just want to have some foals around I have no problems with that its totally their business.

Theres certainly alot of horses around I'd never breed but theres people that wouldn't use what I have either. Were all very differant in what we want and thats a good thing IMO not bad.

[Beeks]

When I originally heard the term, it was in connection with dog breeders, and more specifically, "designer dog" breeders. Those people who keep poorly bred purebred animals in small wire cages. There only purpose in life is to breed. That way they can sell, Chi-poos and Doxie-poos, and Yorkie-Tsu's, etc cheaply then turn them over to the ignorant, cutsie dog loving public, who will pay anywhere from $300 to $1000 for them. The practice is not limited to designer breeds (I hate that term too) but to the mass production of poorly (I need to say that again) POORLY bred purebred dogs...better known as puppy mills.

The dogs mostly lay in their own filth day in and day out and some when rescued, shy away from the feel of grass under their feet because they have never felt it. They care little for betterment of the breed but care greatly about the fattening of their bank account at the expense of the poor creatures pumping out non stop litters.

Why the term"Back Yard" was attached to this aborhent practice puzzles me, as I know people who produce very fine animals (dogs and horses) for the betterment of the breed, from their own back yards or back 5 acre pastures.

A more proper name but not as catchy should be Classless Breeders, or Breeders without Conscience. Maybe putting it in those terms, may help you understand the type of breeder being addressed in this thread.

[Sheza_Angel]

I usually hear this term used for dogs, but when it is horses we are talking about then I experienced a classical case of this.

We used to board from a lady who owned a stallion who in my opinion would have made a nice gelding. He had no performance record, was confined to a stall about 75-80% of the time, never ridden or worked with, and wasn't exactly amazingly well put together. There are so many Paints in this area, and he wasn't high quality in comparison. Sure all of the mares that she owned were registered, but none of them have ever in their lives done anything and one had a down hip. I just could not believe that a horse that is already in pain like that was forced to produce foals for her sick pleasure! The mare herself was not really what I'd call breeding quality either. This is a lady who matches horses together and breeds them just because she thinks the foal will have pretty colors. These are the people who contribute the most to overpopulation with horses! She still has the past two years of foal crops and does absolutely nothing with not even one of those foals, but that isn't it. She has more on the way for the next year. The last I heard was that she was almost being literally run down by one of the yearlings.

Not everybody who breeds horses has bad intentions. It is my belief that only horses whose foals have a pre-planned purpose and are of high quality need to be bred. If a breeder has a goal in mind that they would like to achieve and plan on accomplishing it [like PaintedDesert.net where she breeds for quality horses, and then the flashy sabino TB color] then that can be alright too I think. Those horses are selling every time they appear on a horse ad website, and quick! But, again. They have a purpose!

Everybody should have a list of questions on their mind mind when they are planning to breed their mare. What will become of the foal? What if the buyer cannot take care of the foal any longer because something comes up? Will anybody even want to buy this foal? Those are just a few, but I am sure that there are so many more that could be used.... It is also important to remember that we are in an already flooded horse market [for the people in the USA like me] that is very poor in comparison to other periods in time. The hay price is going up, and there are going to be a lot of horses seen starving around the country because of the fall of slaughter.

If somebody wants to breed their personal mare and keep the foal to have a piece of the horse, and it has no known disease or serious confo. problems then I don't see a problem with that either. There won't be an issue with trying to sell if it you plan on keeping it for yourself.

[denraydar]

Boudiceasmom,
I do not know what breed your foal is but, You can send in thirty mane hairs with the root bulb attached or talk to your vet about DNA typing the foal to find which is the sire. You can check th ecolor calculator to find out which sire is most probable because the grulla presentation would probably eliminate many, (i do not know how many are involved). It is a test with results that can be presented to some breed registrations for qualification of a horse. Best to contact the registry and a vet though to be sure. If the foal is special in temperament, trainablity and performs in it's discipline it is worth the process. I wholeheartedly agree with you on limiting the breeding of equines to those with a purpose in mind and with all intent on the improvement of equines.

[IIIBarsV]

I have a grade AQHA mare who could rival anyone in western pleasure or horsemanship. Attempted to get her registered, but unfortunately could not.

Backyard breeders IMO are people who breed randomly and too often with absolutely NO purpose for the foals, who have no training skills. This can be either registered or grade horses, nice ones, not so nice ones.

I have a friend who owns a gorgeous 16.1hh APHA Tobiano stallion. He's got a great personality, has great movement and conformation, good bloodlines for halter, racing, barrel racing. He's 5 this year, and has never been ridden or done anything but breed a few times a year. His babies are both registered and unregistered, the mares are nice and not so nice, but none of the babies have done anything yet and none are owned by people who will train them up to be anything more than mediocre. The stallion's owner herself is very novice and green, can't ride a broke horse, and spoils her horses. She also breeds jack russel/shih tzu and unregistered purebred shih tzu puppies, and is adding golden retrievers to her list. This is what I call a backyard breeder.

I have another acquaintance who has a gorgeous, well-bred, well-trained purebred registered arabian mare. She bred her to a gorgeous, well-bred, well-trained purebred registered arabian stallion. The stallion's owners had decided to not transfer the stud into their name- They have absolutely NO reason why except that they just didn't feel like it. The foal of this triple-Bask/Crabbet pairing is drop dead gorgeous, good conformation, nice attitude........ but is not registered, not even registered as Half-Arabian, and has only had one summer of riding and one horse show with me. He hasn't done anything since except get ridiculously fat, behavioral problems, stand around in the field, and learn to crib. This was a typical "ruin them with kindness" case... the now 6 yr old gelding who would be amazing in sport horse, hunter, western pleasure, absolutely anything, is basically a fat, spoilt, cribbing, less-than-green broke (he'll need completely retraining all over again, he's done nothing for over two years) "for sale for $2000" grade gelding. It just breaks my heart.

Then there's registered horses who maybe have performed well, but conformationally are less than stellar and not really suited for their job.

Whenever we've bred a mare, it's been for a specific purpose for the foal. We bred a provincial champion reining mare with Jessie James bloodlines to a son of Impulsions and got a 15.3hh palomino gelding who was a very successful club pleasure horse, successful at breed shows, safe and trained to the hilt- anyone could ride him and have a lot of fun. He had untapped potential in hunter over fences. We sold him to a lady who wanted a safe, well-trained forward english-type horse who was not too big to show clubs, some hunter shows, and some breed shows, plus for her kids and family to ride. She owned my grey horse who was basically a backyard pasture ornament with a superbad attitude.

Foal #2 was bred from the same mare to an all-around barrel/gaming stallion who was winning consistantly in the clubs and fairs in Eastern Ontario and had placed in the top 100 in the NBHA world show. He is a red dun gelding, and is my sister's main horse. He ended up winning Congress Junior Horse Polebending, and was top ten in Nyatt Barrels. He consistantly wins locally and hits the 1D in the province, and is going back to Congress this year. We just bought his 2008 half-sister out of the same stud and another mare who was also a local champion and a hard-running good-minded mare. A few other people have some of the foals, but unfortunately they are people who just bred to mediocre mares with the idea of getting a faster baby... apparently they forgot that they need riding lessons and couldn't train a horse to save their life.

I have considered the possibility of breeding my roan mare when she is much older, and proven.... however, despite having great looks, great colour, great trainability, conformation, and movement.... she's got a bit of a screw loose sometimes and does not vet or farrier. I don't think I'd want my vet getting the double-boots while he's trying to ultrasound her... and she fights through tranqs. So more than likely, I will not breed my next prospect, but rather buy it. lol. Or maybe I'll just clone her. LOL

Cloning is becoming popular... it's not too expensive, just $150,000. I thought it would be much more expensive than that.