Arabians in the hunter/jumper shows - is there a bias against them?

CowGirlUp1833 · 02-10-2005, 03:30 PM

Has anyone ever mentioned that polowraps are NOT allowed in the ring? You may be getting disqualified! They may be okay is some over fences classes, but you'll have to check with the rule book for that particular show.

Other then that, she does look a little arab-y but overall I think she looks fine as a hunter and has good form over the fence... Also, the riders form is quite good, but she needs to release more over the fence....she is holding her horses face over the jump.

arabianlvr87 · 02-10-2005, 03:31 PM

Was that from a rated show?

GeM · 02-10-2005, 05:27 PM

There will always be prejudice in the hunter arena. I doubt that will ever change.
As for arabians, a lot of people don't like the way they carry themselves...I think they look good at dressage, but that's just me.

GeM · 02-10-2005, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowGirlUp1833

Has anyone ever mentioned that polowraps are NOT allowed in the ring? You may be getting disqualified! They may be okay is some over fences classes, but you'll have to check with the rule book for that particular show.

I have seen them at A shows in Eq over fences classes, but they do not look as good as open front leather boots. A lot of judges hate polo wraps in the ring, but some horsed actually need them...there is this one famous eq horse who goes in Saratoga bandages but I forgot his name.
Anyway...off track, but whatever.

*Psylocke* · 02-10-2005, 05:38 PM

First off, I have told Chelsea before...I LOVE Fiona, the mare is awesome!

BUT I am an Arab person (and I love warmbloods! perfect cross! lol)

There IS a prejudice for sure, and unfortunatly we have to play by there rules. IF that is what is happening here, I would take the advice of saying she is an oldenburg x perhaps, but she does look somewhat araby, you can tell the other side (which is great if she showed as a half arab on the Arab circuit.....they have hunter classes too!!!!)

If you are in fact disqualified for some reason, I would imagine that they would let you know.

notadumbld · 02-10-2005, 08:19 PM

Regarding the polo wraps: In the jumping pic it was a schooling show and half of the horses had wraps. Her instructor said it was okay for jumping but I think they came off for hunter. The trotting picture was taken at the mare performance test and as far as I remember, all the mares were wrapped.

We'll have to see what this instructor says about her form over fences. I wish I had a better picture since Fi is over-jumping in the one I posted. Caught Chels by surprise I think which affected her hand position.

Thanks for all the comments.

julie&chico · 02-10-2005, 08:53 PM

I have showed for years on the hunter/jumper circuit and YES their is a bias with a mojority of the shows, I found especially with the A-circiut. Your daughters pony looks like a cute little hunter type, and she does look quite arabish.(which I love). Whenever I never placed I would be upset but I learned to ask the judges on my performance. I would always hate to show up at a show and find a ton of QH's and later on find out that the judge was a QH judge.(not saying all shows). And it is not like I was poor rider I always placed I the top two for my eq classes so I new I could ride. But at certain shows with certain judge's who have perferance towards certain breeds, wether it be the TB/warmblood's or QH's they would always be placed even though you know they shouldn't have. I have actually seen especially in the flat classes where they ask for canter and these QH's would do this fourbeating lope and still place. I'm not sour grapes because I know my horse and I can do it.
But the point of all this is yes there is a bias in shows whether it's hunter/jumper or dressage especially for an arab looking horse (I've been to lots of shows)(and not saying all shows and judging , but a arab does have to try alittle harder in the hunter/jumper circiut because it is not the "typical hunter type". the TB/warmblood is)(I have seen lots of arabs place in shows too.)

JC

julie&chico · 02-10-2005, 08:56 PM

I forgot to ask, why doesn't your daughter do jumpers, where there basically is no judge to fault you on besides you time and faults? ArabX do really well in jumpers(from my personal experience). I think it is way more fun and challenging than hunters.

JC

AmyS2429 · 02-10-2005, 09:07 PM

I would have to say there is definitely discrimination in the hunter ring. Is it only schooling shows that your daughter does or also rated? From my experience, and I am definitely not an expert, but have been showing A & B circuit hunters for about 10 years, schooling shows aren't as picky as the rated shows and it all depends on the competition you have. If you have a lot of nice confirmation hunter-types then you probably won't pin. The pictures looked good, the only thing I noticed is in the jumping picture, the horse's front legs look a little behind if that makes sense. Technically I think a good hunter is supposed to tuck up toward the chin where as it looks like this horse is tucking more toward the belly. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong because like I said, I am not an expert, but that is what I've been taught and have seen on the circuit. I am attaching a link for a horse for sale on equine.com. Now this horse if obviously pricey, but I was trying to find a picture of the "perfect" hunter so you could get an idea. Hope this helps.

http://horse.classifieds.equine.com/horses/715314.html

Overall I think you have a very nice horse & rider.

whitetoes · 01-28-2008, 07:09 AM

A photo is just a moment in time and really not fair to judge too much on it! As the other posters said, the wraps would immediately eliminate you from hunter competition. They are only allowed in equitation and jumpers. Taking this just from THIS photo and allowing that the horse was a bit worried about the jump:he is dropping both front legs down, ie "hanging" (which, btw, has nothing to do with the horse's bloodlines!) this is considered a major fault and if he does this all the time that may be the reason he isn't placing as well as you thought he should. He is also "laying over" on his right side a bit, again was it because the jump scared him or that is his style? rider has too much hold on his mouth and that could be affecting his style in this photo. Otherwise cute horse and rider appeard to ride nicely.
As far as breed prejudice, check out what I wrote on that in another thread under showing.

02-10-2005, 03:30 PM	#11
CowGirlUp1833 Senior Member+ Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Holland Lake Shore, West Michigan Posts: 16,592 Images: 411 Blog Entries: 37	Has anyone ever mentioned that polowraps are NOT allowed in the ring? You may be getting disqualified! They may be okay is some over fences classes, but you'll have to check with the rule book for that particular show. Other then that, she does look a little arab-y but overall I think she looks fine as a hunter and has good form over the fence... Also, the riders form is quite good, but she needs to release more over the fence....she is holding her horses face over the jump. __________________ www.Equine-Endeavors.com Proud mom of Rusty and Stevey - the 2 best red-heads anyone could love!

02-10-2005, 05:27 PM	#13
GeM Senior Member+ Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,928 Images: 22	There will always be prejudice in the hunter arena. I doubt that will ever change. As for arabians, a lot of people don't like the way they carry themselves...I think they look good at dressage, but that's just me. __________________ Don't insult the aligator until after you cross the river.

02-10-2005, 05:38 PM	#15
Psylocke Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: I.....AM....CANADIAN! Posts: 5,142 Images: 68 Blog Entries: 32	First off, I have told Chelsea before...I LOVE Fiona, the mare is awesome! BUT I am an Arab person (and I love warmbloods! perfect cross! lol) There IS a prejudice for sure, and unfortunatly we have to play by there rules. IF that is what is happening here, I would take the advice of saying she is an oldenburg x perhaps, but she does look somewhat araby, you can tell the other side (which is great if she showed as a half arab on the Arab circuit.....they have hunter classes too!!!!) If you are in fact disqualified for some reason, I would imagine that they would let you know. __________________ You just have to consider the possibility that everyone else may be wrong -- Sean Penn I've been snowballed.....twice!

02-10-2005, 09:07 PM	#19
AmyS2429 Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 290	I would have to say there is definitely discrimination in the hunter ring. Is it only schooling shows that your daughter does or also rated? From my experience, and I am definitely not an expert, but have been showing A & B circuit hunters for about 10 years, schooling shows aren't as picky as the rated shows and it all depends on the competition you have. If you have a lot of nice confirmation hunter-types then you probably won't pin. The pictures looked good, the only thing I noticed is in the jumping picture, the horse's front legs look a little behind if that makes sense. Technically I think a good hunter is supposed to tuck up toward the chin where as it looks like this horse is tucking more toward the belly. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong because like I said, I am not an expert, but that is what I've been taught and have seen on the circuit. I am attaching a link for a horse for sale on equine.com. Now this horse if obviously pricey, but I was trying to find a picture of the "perfect" hunter so you could get an idea. Hope this helps. http://horse.classifieds.equine.com/horses/715314.html Overall I think you have a very nice horse & rider. __________________ ~Amy~

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02-10-2005, 03:31 PM	#12
arabianlvr87 Senior Member+ Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 8,567 Images: 294 Blog Entries: 158	Was that from a rated show?

02-10-2005, 08:19 PM	#16
notadumbld Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: North Granby, CT Posts: 136 Images: 48	Regarding the polo wraps: In the jumping pic it was a schooling show and half of the horses had wraps. Her instructor said it was okay for jumping but I think they came off for hunter. The trotting picture was taken at the mare performance test and as far as I remember, all the mares were wrapped. We'll have to see what this instructor says about her form over fences. I wish I had a better picture since Fi is over-jumping in the one I posted. Caught Chels by surprise I think which affected her hand position. Thanks for all the comments.

02-10-2005, 08:53 PM	#17
julie&chico Banned Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 953	I have showed for years on the hunter/jumper circuit and YES their is a bias with a mojority of the shows, I found especially with the A-circiut. Your daughters pony looks like a cute little hunter type, and she does look quite arabish.(which I love). Whenever I never placed I would be upset but I learned to ask the judges on my performance. I would always hate to show up at a show and find a ton of QH's and later on find out that the judge was a QH judge.(not saying all shows). And it is not like I was poor rider I always placed I the top two for my eq classes so I new I could ride. But at certain shows with certain judge's who have perferance towards certain breeds, wether it be the TB/warmblood's or QH's they would always be placed even though you know they shouldn't have. I have actually seen especially in the flat classes where they ask for canter and these QH's would do this fourbeating lope and still place. I'm not sour grapes because I know my horse and I can do it. But the point of all this is yes there is a bias in shows whether it's hunter/jumper or dressage especially for an arab looking horse (I've been to lots of shows)(and not saying all shows and judging , but a arab does have to try alittle harder in the hunter/jumper circiut because it is not the "typical hunter type". the TB/warmblood is)(I have seen lots of arabs place in shows too.) JC

02-10-2005, 08:56 PM	#18
julie&chico Banned Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 953	I forgot to ask, why doesn't your daughter do jumpers, where there basically is no judge to fault you on besides you time and faults? ArabX do really well in jumpers(from my personal experience). I think it is way more fun and challenging than hunters. JC

01-28-2008, 07:09 AM	#20
whitetoes Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 16	A photo is just a moment in time and really not fair to judge too much on it! As the other posters said, the wraps would immediately eliminate you from hunter competition. They are only allowed in equitation and jumpers. Taking this just from THIS photo and allowing that the horse was a bit worried about the jump:he is dropping both front legs down, ie "hanging" (which, btw, has nothing to do with the horse's bloodlines!) this is considered a major fault and if he does this all the time that may be the reason he isn't placing as well as you thought he should. He is also "laying over" on his right side a bit, again was it because the jump scared him or that is his style? rider has too much hold on his mouth and that could be affecting his style in this photo. Otherwise cute horse and rider appeard to ride nicely. As far as breed prejudice, check out what I wrote on that in another thread under showing.