Arabian People: Padron?

WashingtonBay · 08-08-2008, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liberty's Gal

I know Magnum looks so, so extreme in all the promo pictures Midwest has of him. It is kind of off-putting. I wonder if he looks more 'normal' when you see him in person. I have yet to find a non-pro pic of him floating around of him. I wonder what he looks like in person.

Midwest had him at their open barn at Scottsdale last year. I would love to get a chance to see him some day.

I wish they wouldn't shave and oil the eyes so much. Far from pretty, most of them look like they've been on the losing side of a bar fight.

I showed Arabs in the 80s... just when that fad was beginning. A little baby oil rubbed in to make the skin look black is nice and I did it. But shaving the hair off the nose and eyes and oiling them shiny, no.

denraydar · 08-08-2008, 12:22 PM

I think Magnum Psyche is absolutely gorgeous and feel that the 'surgery' he had was necessary for his medical health. I boarded with a horse that cribbed and he was going to be euthanized at 9 due to the inability to chew food and continual colic episodes all related to cribbing. His teeth were worn down to nubs and his jaws were out of position. The collars were continually wearing sores on his neck as he was very determined to continue cribbing, doing so on any available surface including the air 'wind sucking'. Cribbing is more than an annoyance in some instances.
If I had a horse as close to perfect a specimen for his breed as Magnum Psyche is and suffering that much I would certainly opt for the surgery as well. The fact that Magnum Psyche came back after his forced exile and won first place is enough proof that he is worthy of commanding a stud fee and remaining an active member of the show circuit.
I am so glad he was a stud as it ensured the existence Magnums Opus who has IMO one of the best fluid, elastic movements I have ever seen on any horse of any breed.

Sandra-A1 · 08-08-2008, 12:47 PM

denraydar, while I agree that he is a lovely Arabian, in this particular case, I have to question the validity of the reason/s for MP to have this surgery.
The questions that were in my mind, and many others back when this all came to light.... were if a yearling is cribbing then wouldn't one ask themselves why does such a young horse have this vice? Wouldn't/couldn't the problem be caused by the care and managment of said yearling?
Why do several other yearlings in this one training facility have the exact same problem?
Then we add in the fact that several other horses in this same facility also had various unnecessary cosmetic procedures/surgeries.... well, it is only natural to have doubts that this cribbing surgery was necessary anyway.

Then there is still the issue of showing a horse that has had it's appearance surgecially altered...especially a stallion that will be standing at stud.

The great Horse Show Judge Peter Cameron was once asked about MP showing and here is his response as to what he would have done had he been the Judge:

Quote:

How would you have judged Magnum Psyche at the 1998 Nationals knowing that the horse had neck surgery?

If I knew Magnum Psyche had neck surgery he would of been placed last. I would of walked over and touched his neck so the crowd could see something was wrong. Arabian people do more than any other breed to “change” the beauty of the Arabian horse. In 1973 at the U.S. National Arabian Championships, I was judging the Park Horse Championship class. I disqualified a horse named “Cooter” (not sure on the spelling) because he was dripping blood from being spurred.

WashingtonBay · 08-08-2008, 12:53 PM

I'm skeptical about the need for the surgery as well.

denraydar · 08-08-2008, 01:14 PM

Well I cannot vouch for the owners by any means but am giving them the benefit of the doubt.
My TB cribs and my DVM told me specifically that he should not be in the company of young horses, foals and yearlings in particular as they are impressionable and can pick up cribbing as a habit when witnessing older horses doing it. That other yearlings were also cribbing is not a surprise but an expectation to me If they had an older horse cribbing in the presence of their yearlings it would influence all of them to do so as they would also influence each other. It goes with the territory.

As for the surgery improving his chances of winning I would consider that theory if he had never won anything prior to the surgery, and I am not sure of his show records to know if that is a variable.

I am considering a minimally invasive surgery to correct cribbing on my TB and he does not even show. I am worried about him.

Sheza_Angel · 08-08-2008, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WashingtonBay

I wish they wouldn't shave and oil the eyes so much. Far from pretty, most of them look like they've been on the losing side of a bar fight.

I showed Arabs in the 80s... just when that fad was beginning. A little baby oil rubbed in to make the skin look black is nice and I did it. But shaving the hair off the nose and eyes and oiling them shiny, no.

My thoughts exactly! I am so happy that somebody else agrees on it looking odd. I have only shown halter in the APHA circuit and in open shows but some people still did it - ew!

Banat · 08-08-2008, 02:39 PM

Funny, I think the less hair and more makeup and shine they have the better I like it.

I love a properly groomed Arab.

WashingtonBay · 08-08-2008, 02:46 PM

Just like anything with people I guess... folk think if a little is good a lot must be better.

Bodi · 08-08-2008, 05:38 PM

Padron, one of the handful of greats who have touched the breed in many ways. The video was perfect.

MP - Knew him when he was just a little guy in MI. He's a nice boy, and I think better than his sire imho. However as far as his surgery goes. He is altered/changed from the way he originally is. It's a fine line, and while not cosmetic does change some things for him physically. Irregardless I don't think he should be in the halter ring because of it. He is no longer his original representation. He proved himself before surgery and accept him at that. The one thing though is at least if your going into MP you know what has been done with him so you know how to judge him when choosing him for your mare or not.

Scalping does get excessive with different barns. So does the bridle path continue to grow. Eventually it'll be down to 4" of mane.

The one thing I originally enjoyed about the sales in Poland is that the horses were natural, and still good horses. I noticed in the past year or so they've started to clip and clean them up. Hopefully they don't go overboard to appeal to the market.

smokygirl · 08-09-2008, 01:09 AM

I doubt they would have taken a chance on that surgery with Magnum if he hadn't needed it. I've visited Magnum many times over the years, and even as a young yearling, David knew what he had in that one. I don't think they'd risk the surgery (because of the associated risks with any surgery) if they didn't need to.

Magnum actually looks very, very little like Padron or Padron's Psyche though. Many people think he does, because they all were chestnuts w/ attitude, but Magnum is almost a ringer for his dam, and his dam's dam, and her dam. He has the neck and color of her, as well as the top line and eyes, and face. Fancy (A Fancy Miracle) is an incredibly beautiful mare. Magnum's younger brothers carry more of the Padron. They don't have the same look really. I think his sister looks like almost a perfect cross because on some photos (or days) you see her dam in her, and in some you see Psyche in her. But Magnum is most definately a momma's boy. He's also fun to watch under saddle. He's not shown under saddle, but David frequently rides him. He is very well mannered and happy when out and about. He also is very unflashy at home in the barn. He wears his wraps, and has his tail up. But he still looks every inch as beautiful as when he went National Champion. There is a quality about him that is unmistakable. He knows he rules the barn, but he's not loud or obnoxious about it.

08-08-2008, 05:38 PM	#39
Bodi Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Michigan Posts: 569 Images: 111	Padron, one of the handful of greats who have touched the breed in many ways. The video was perfect. MP - Knew him when he was just a little guy in MI. He's a nice boy, and I think better than his sire imho. However as far as his surgery goes. He is altered/changed from the way he originally is. It's a fine line, and while not cosmetic does change some things for him physically. Irregardless I don't think he should be in the halter ring because of it. He is no longer his original representation. He proved himself before surgery and accept him at that. The one thing though is at least if your going into MP you know what has been done with him so you know how to judge him when choosing him for your mare or not. Scalping does get excessive with different barns. So does the bridle path continue to grow. Eventually it'll be down to 4" of mane. The one thing I originally enjoyed about the sales in Poland is that the horses were natural, and still good horses. I noticed in the past year or so they've started to clip and clean them up. Hopefully they don't go overboard to appeal to the market. __________________ Diane Blanzy - Pipe Dream Percherons Home of the Blue Roan Percheron research project

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08-08-2008, 12:22 PM	#32
denraydar Senior Member+ Join Date: May 2008 Location: im a nut in a hut Posts: 991 Images: 6	I think Magnum Psyche is absolutely gorgeous and feel that the 'surgery' he had was necessary for his medical health. I boarded with a horse that cribbed and he was going to be euthanized at 9 due to the inability to chew food and continual colic episodes all related to cribbing. His teeth were worn down to nubs and his jaws were out of position. The collars were continually wearing sores on his neck as he was very determined to continue cribbing, doing so on any available surface including the air 'wind sucking'. Cribbing is more than an annoyance in some instances. If I had a horse as close to perfect a specimen for his breed as Magnum Psyche is and suffering that much I would certainly opt for the surgery as well. The fact that Magnum Psyche came back after his forced exile and won first place is enough proof that he is worthy of commanding a stud fee and remaining an active member of the show circuit. I am so glad he was a stud as it ensured the existence Magnums Opus who has IMO one of the best fluid, elastic movements I have ever seen on any horse of any breed.

08-08-2008, 12:53 PM	#34
WashingtonBay Senior Member+ Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Tumwater, WA Posts: 991 Images: 98 Blog Entries: 2	I'm skeptical about the need for the surgery as well.

08-08-2008, 01:14 PM	#35
denraydar Senior Member+ Join Date: May 2008 Location: im a nut in a hut Posts: 991 Images: 6	Well I cannot vouch for the owners by any means but am giving them the benefit of the doubt. My TB cribs and my DVM told me specifically that he should not be in the company of young horses, foals and yearlings in particular as they are impressionable and can pick up cribbing as a habit when witnessing older horses doing it. That other yearlings were also cribbing is not a surprise but an expectation to me If they had an older horse cribbing in the presence of their yearlings it would influence all of them to do so as they would also influence each other. It goes with the territory. As for the surgery improving his chances of winning I would consider that theory if he had never won anything prior to the surgery, and I am not sure of his show records to know if that is a variable. I am considering a minimally invasive surgery to correct cribbing on my TB and he does not even show. I am worried about him.

08-08-2008, 02:39 PM	#37
Banat Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 962 Images: 20	Funny, I think the less hair and more makeup and shine they have the better I like it. I love a properly groomed Arab.

08-08-2008, 02:46 PM	#38
WashingtonBay Senior Member+ Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Tumwater, WA Posts: 991 Images: 98 Blog Entries: 2	Just like anything with people I guess... folk think if a little is good a lot must be better.

08-09-2008, 01:09 AM	#40
smokygirl Full Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 36	I doubt they would have taken a chance on that surgery with Magnum if he hadn't needed it. I've visited Magnum many times over the years, and even as a young yearling, David knew what he had in that one. I don't think they'd risk the surgery (because of the associated risks with any surgery) if they didn't need to. Magnum actually looks very, very little like Padron or Padron's Psyche though. Many people think he does, because they all were chestnuts w/ attitude, but Magnum is almost a ringer for his dam, and his dam's dam, and her dam. He has the neck and color of her, as well as the top line and eyes, and face. Fancy (A Fancy Miracle) is an incredibly beautiful mare. Magnum's younger brothers carry more of the Padron. They don't have the same look really. I think his sister looks like almost a perfect cross because on some photos (or days) you see her dam in her, and in some you see Psyche in her. But Magnum is most definately a momma's boy. He's also fun to watch under saddle. He's not shown under saddle, but David frequently rides him. He is very well mannered and happy when out and about. He also is very unflashy at home in the barn. He wears his wraps, and has his tail up. But he still looks every inch as beautiful as when he went National Champion. There is a quality about him that is unmistakable. He knows he rules the barn, but he's not loud or obnoxious about it.