Arab trainees- Country Pleasure vs Park Pleasure

CJ · 06-03-2006, 01:12 PM

Anybody here work with either or both, Hands On?
If a trainee prospect has good action at liberty, would/nt it have to be kept sort of fired-up to train & show, esp Park? By firedup I mean like on high protein, so its natural animation is enhanced?
Does/nt that animation equate to using the stall for a swingset?
FRMs owner thinks maybe she'd be a Park/ C-Pleasure candidate. FRM and others Ive known on hi-protein were pretty to watch but 'not as much fun' to be/ work around.

Sandra-A1 · 06-03-2006, 03:48 PM

First off.....
There is a BIG difference between a Arabian CP horses and an Arabian Park Horse!

While the EP and Park Arabian horse appears to be a high energy horse there is a lot more to their performance than just that. While they looked "fired up" they are highly trained, responsive horses that are very much under controlled by their riders...at least they better be.

No they should not be fed up and then stalled up.

They are highly trained athletics and should be treated as such. If you have to "feed up and stall up" one to get the desired performance then the owner/trainer has absolutely no idea what they are doing or understand of the class and type of performance necessary.

Action at liberty is not, in my opinion, a good way to tell if a horse has CP, EP or Park potential because horses tend to move differently once saddled. I have owned several WP Arabian that would move like a Park horse when at liberty.

Instead, breeding and more importantly, conformation, is the starting point in my opinion. Most of your Saddleseat Arabians have the same conformation. If they are not built for that type of performance all the high energy feed in the world will not get it when under saddle.
Look at the horse's overall conformation and for an individual with a long, well-angulated shoulder, good withers, and a long, shapely, well set neck which will enable him to elevate his front end and look through the bridle. In addition, the horse should have a long, strong, well-muscled forearm and long, strong pasterns whose angle matches his shoulder angle so that he can get adequate elevation at the trot, and stay sound.
Strong coupling is important, because the rear end is where the power comes from. The horse should travel with his hocks well under him and go an honest, four-cornered trot, because a horse who "leaves his hocks behind" has a harder time getting lift off his front end.

There is a lot to the training of these horses as well as the hoof trimming and shoeing. Training is started in the ground and in harness long before they are even mounted. The foundation for a saddleseat horse is the same as a horse destined for any other class but then it moves on into a bitting rig/harness and long lines and takes a different route. The horses are driven forward and taught to move forward to a point and then back off the bridle. (Sorry, I go by sight and feel so I can show it better than I can explain it.

)

The breed does have strict hoof and shoeing regulations so it is MOST important that you work with a very qualified farrier who knows how to help your horse perform it's best while still staying within the AHA rules. I have seen horses win titles and them lose them because of the length of a hoof or weight of a shoe was incorrect and did not meet the AHA regulations.

Also I highly recommend getting yourself a copy of:
The Arabian English Pleasure Horse: A Guide to Selecting, Training and Showing by Kathleen Obenland
if you are seriously interested in any of the Arabian Saddleseat performance classes. You can buy a used copy in good condition over on Amazon for just a few dollars.
You will find it most educational & helpful when it comes to the selection and training of the Arabian Saddleseat competitor.

If the owners really think the horse is a CP/EP/Park prospect then it is money well spent to have several Professional Trainers who specialize in these classes to look at the horse and tell you if the horse has the potential.
If it does, then I would also have them train both the horse and educate the owners....

CJ · 06-04-2006, 07:52 AM

Thanks Sandra, youre a wealth of knowledge as always!

IMO I cant see this horse going into intensive training & highly competitive showing this late in the game (shes 10) w/out losing her cool or mind, "but what do I know". English pleasure or western pleasure she might achieve. But "faux-gaited"?

IMO shes at her best when encouraged to calm down, not fired up. Shes pretty, fired up, but doesnt think real hard like that.

06-03-2006, 01:12 PM	#1
CJ Senior Member+ Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 5,753 Images: 48	Arab trainees- Country Pleasure vs Park Pleasure Anybody here work with either or both, Hands On? If a trainee prospect has good action at liberty, would/nt it have to be kept sort of fired-up to train & show, esp Park? By firedup I mean like on high protein, so its natural animation is enhanced? Does/nt that animation equate to using the stall for a swingset? FRMs owner thinks maybe she'd be a Park/ C-Pleasure candidate. FRM and others Ive known on hi-protein were pretty to watch but 'not as much fun' to be/ work around.

06-03-2006, 03:48 PM	#2
Sandra-A1 Senior Member+ Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,539 Images: 236	First off..... There is a BIG difference between a Arabian CP horses and an Arabian Park Horse! While the EP and Park Arabian horse appears to be a high energy horse there is a lot more to their performance than just that. While they looked "fired up" they are highly trained, responsive horses that are very much under controlled by their riders...at least they better be. No they should not be fed up and then stalled up. They are highly trained athletics and should be treated as such. If you have to "feed up and stall up" one to get the desired performance then the owner/trainer has absolutely no idea what they are doing or understand of the class and type of performance necessary. Action at liberty is not, in my opinion, a good way to tell if a horse has CP, EP or Park potential because horses tend to move differently once saddled. I have owned several WP Arabian that would move like a Park horse when at liberty. Instead, breeding and more importantly, conformation, is the starting point in my opinion. Most of your Saddleseat Arabians have the same conformation. If they are not built for that type of performance all the high energy feed in the world will not get it when under saddle. Look at the horse's overall conformation and for an individual with a long, well-angulated shoulder, good withers, and a long, shapely, well set neck which will enable him to elevate his front end and look through the bridle. In addition, the horse should have a long, strong, well-muscled forearm and long, strong pasterns whose angle matches his shoulder angle so that he can get adequate elevation at the trot, and stay sound. Strong coupling is important, because the rear end is where the power comes from. The horse should travel with his hocks well under him and go an honest, four-cornered trot, because a horse who "leaves his hocks behind" has a harder time getting lift off his front end. There is a lot to the training of these horses as well as the hoof trimming and shoeing. Training is started in the ground and in harness long before they are even mounted. The foundation for a saddleseat horse is the same as a horse destined for any other class but then it moves on into a bitting rig/harness and long lines and takes a different route. The horses are driven forward and taught to move forward to a point and then back off the bridle. (Sorry, I go by sight and feel so I can show it better than I can explain it. ) The breed does have strict hoof and shoeing regulations so it is MOST important that you work with a very qualified farrier who knows how to help your horse perform it's best while still staying within the AHA rules. I have seen horses win titles and them lose them because of the length of a hoof or weight of a shoe was incorrect and did not meet the AHA regulations. Also I highly recommend getting yourself a copy of: The Arabian English Pleasure Horse: A Guide to Selecting, Training and Showing by Kathleen Obenland if you are seriously interested in any of the Arabian Saddleseat performance classes. You can buy a used copy in good condition over on Amazon for just a few dollars. You will find it most educational & helpful when it comes to the selection and training of the Arabian Saddleseat competitor. If the owners really think the horse is a CP/EP/Park prospect then it is money well spent to have several Professional Trainers who specialize in these classes to look at the horse and tell you if the horse has the potential. If it does, then I would also have them train both the horse and educate the owners.... __________________ "It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." ~Dumbledore

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06-04-2006, 07:52 AM	#3
CJ Senior Member+ Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 5,753 Images: 48	Thanks Sandra, youre a wealth of knowledge as always! IMO I cant see this horse going into intensive training & highly competitive showing this late in the game (shes 10) w/out losing her cool or mind, "but what do I know". English pleasure or western pleasure she might achieve. But "faux-gaited"? IMO shes at her best when encouraged to calm down, not fired up. Shes pretty, fired up, but doesnt think real hard like that.