Results 1 to 3 of 3

Discuss APHA (Tobiano/Tovero/Overo) VS. Pinto Genetic (Tobiano/Tovero/Overo) at the Horse Breeding forum - Horse Breeding Forums.

I see the same confusion in a lot of threads when Genetic Type VS. APHA ...
  1. #1
    Senior Member+

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    12,394

    Lightbulb APHA (Tobiano/Tovero/Overo) VS. Pinto Genetic (Tobiano/Tovero/Overo)

    I see the same confusion in a lot of threads when Genetic Type VS. APHA Type is discussed with regards to patterns. I thought it might help those that are unfamiliar with APHA to understand how APHA uses the common terms that are not "correct" when put against genetics.

    If you have an APHA registered Paint, then within that orginization there are specific guidelines as to "what pattern" your horse is, that often in NO WAY relates in complete regards to the actual genetic "pattern" of your horse.

    From their site this is good starter reading to understand the way APHA decides the pattern designation of what THEY consider the two "main" patterns:
    http://www.apha.com/breed/geneticeq.html


    Then go to THEIR combined patterns page: http://www.apha.com/breed/geneticeq6.html

    Then, THEIR deffination of:

    Tobaino:
    Tobiano
    (pronounced: tow be yah' no)
    The dark color usually covers one or both flanks.
    Generally, all four legs are white, at least below the hocks and knees.
    Generally, the spots are regular and distinct as ovals or round patterns that extend down over the neck and chest, giving the appearance of a shield.
    Head markings are like those of a solid-colored horse--solid, or with a blaze, strip, star or snip.
    A tobiano may be either predominantly dark or white.
    The tail is often two colors.
    Overo:
    Overo
    (pronounced: oh vair' oh)
    The white usually will not cross the back of the horse between its withers and its tail.
    Generally, at least one and often all four legs are dark.
    Generally, the white is irregular, and is rather scattered or splashy.
    Head markings are distinctive, often bald-faced, apron-faced or bonnet-faced.

    An overo may be either predominantly dark or white.
    The tail is usually one color.
    Tovero:
    Tovero
    (pronounced: tow vair' oh)
    Dark pigmentation around the ears, which may expand to cover the forehead and/or eyes.
    One or both eyes blue.
    Dark pigmentation around the mouth, which may extend up the sides of the face and form spots.
    Chest spot(s) in varying sizes. These may also extend up the neck.
    Flank spot(s) ranging in size. These are often accompanied by smaller spots that extend forward across the barrel, and up over the loin.
    Spots, varying in size, at the base of the tail.
    Now, this is where people get confused. IF your horse is APHA registered, then one correct way to "define" your horses pattern as a REGISTERED PAINT is by the APHA standard. It IS NOT the genetically correct way many times, but it is correct according to THEIR GUIDELINES.

    However, most dedicated breeders are a little smarter than APHA and are determined to stay informed of new information and knowledge from science as they are made avaliable. They don't always get it right, but at least they try a lot harder than APHA does as an association. APHA still doesn't offically "recognize" testing for common genetic mutations of Health risk to their breed by not being willing to note even the most common of all tests (HYPP and LWO) on the papers. So it is not supprising that they are a long way behind the curve in recognizing when their "pattern designations" are not up to current scientific standard.

    However, because it IS their orginization and it is done by their rules, the correct pattern designations for an APHA registered horse is as their guidelines show. It may well not be genetically correct, but it is the standard by which "horse patterns" are named with APHA registration.

    It is just as important, IMO, that owners and breeders of registered Paint horses educate themselves to understand, as much as currently possible, as to the genetically correct designation of their horses according to current science.

    So, while I may not be ready to quanitfy all, I am willing to support that most genetic advances are probably correct in designating color/pattern designations. However, that does not mean that if your horse is an APHA registered Tobiano with face white that it is registered wrong. It is RIGHT according to the standards set by YOUR HORSES governing association.

    It is just not genetically correct.

    Thus, if you say you have a Tobiano APHA registered horse and it happens to have face white, then you are correct. But, if someone else says the horse is not "just Tobiano" then they are probably also correct.

    And the same goes for an AQHA registered horse with different "white markings". But, that's another thread, LOL.
    Last edited by doublebarr; 05-02-2008 at 06:05 PM. Reason: wrong word, LOL.

  2. #2
    Senior Member+
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    1,709
    Good post.

    I own 3 APHA horses.

    One is a SPB gelding, who has classic "minimal splash" face markings and no white on his legs. He is of couse considered solid, but if there is ever a test for splash, I am going to do it, just to satisfy my own curiousity. So, phenotypically solid, but most likely genotypically overo.

    Another is a bay/brown (not sure) mare that is registered as a tobiano, but the white "falls off" the side of her face in a way that is very characteristic of splash white. APHA registered as tobiano, but possibly has splash in there. I haven't tested her for frame yet, either, but I don't particularly suspect it.

    The third is my black "tobiano" mare. She is, like the other mare, registered as tobiano, but I am guaranteeing you that she has some overo. Why? Because she has a blue eye. :-) Again, the white falls off the nose in a way to suggest splash white. I have had her tested for both frame and sabino1, and she is negative for both. But, with that blue eye, I know she is genotypically a tovero.

    Man alive, I can't wait for a test for splash white. :-)

  3. #3
    Senior Member+
    JBandRio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    61,909
    Blog Entries
    12
    Great post DB - hopefully this clears up some of the confusion we've been seeing lately
    He who thinks he can do everything or knows everything has already reached the beginning of the end.
    -- The Rothenberger Family

    - JB Acres, owned and operated by Dynamite animals.
    Barn Swallow Jewelry on Artfire!

Similar Threads

  1. Tobiano... or... Overo?
    By ginger102005 in forum Horse Breeding
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 08-15-2007, 06:19 PM
  2. Overo, Tovero, or Tobiano?
    By dancer in forum Horse Breeding
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 07-16-2006, 06:19 PM
  3. Paint people could you please explain Tovero, Overo and...
    By bakinthsaddle in forum Horse Breeding
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 05-04-2006, 06:56 PM
  4. Tobiano or tovero?
    By Daisy6055 in forum Horse Chat
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 06-23-2005, 03:38 AM
  5. sabino overo tobiano
    By shell in forum Horse Chat
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 08-13-2004, 01:29 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •