[Lyre]

In that video, Anky is causing the "bad" moments from her horse, not fixing them. Anky never gives, Anky pushes and blocks. The horse is contained, unhappy and tense. There is no softness and steadiness and stretch and GIVING (that is the reward), there is a brick wall. Also, I don't think you should demand things from horses whilst riding them. That's never going to be a co-operation nor an understanding. That's working on the idea that you must MAKE them submit at all costs or else they'll never listen otherwise. I think that's a horrible attitude to have. If horses make a mistake or do things differently to how you want, it is up to you to show them the way you want it to be done, and to reward them when this is achieved - or anything near it, even, rather than the opposite. Severe punishment for errors through miscommunication seems to produce nothing but confusion. If a horse I ride doesn't do what I want the first time I ask, then I ask again, more clearly. Often repetition (thus reinforcement) will help a horse learn rather than forcing them into your little box and making them stay there for the purpose only of ensuring you have complete control. Knowing when to ask and when to reward, when to push and when to give, and knowing what problems are and working through them, isn't exactly easy. I'm still learning a whole lot about how to "talk" to the horse every time I ride.

Instead of thinking of ways to control their horses I think rollkur riders should learn to actually listen and communicate with them. Who would have thought that top GP riders could seem to be so detached from their partners whom are relying on their communication to understand and willingly act upon what they are being asked. Animals do what is good for them more than they run away from what is bad. And really that is what you do when you punish a horse - they run from what they did that caused a negative reaction from you, rather than willingly move towards the direction you are asking through comprehension. If you're having to ever force a horse to do something then you need to ask yourself why they don't want to do it in the first place. I have found in my small years of riding that this isn't always deliberate obstinance. And if that is the case then maybe stronger reinforcement is necessary but like atabal said these cases should be exceptions not commonplace, especially with a GP trained dressage horse with a world class rider =/

It just all screams "wrong" to me and I try to understand how people can defend rollkur but can never fathom why...

[cowgurly02]

Originally Posted by Libby-Jane

Quote:
Originally Posted by cowgurly02
I don't know enough about dressage or hyperflexion/rolkur to have an educated opinion, but I definitely did notice that horse fighting it and trying to come out of it/shaking his head several times in that video. If my horse did that it would be a sign of him telling me he wasn't comfortable with what I was asking.



i find that hilarious. i would think that this position is a lot more comfortable. it is all about streaching the neck and along the back to make the horse more supple. and everyone knows that when a horse is more supple, it is much more comfortable to ride and for the horse. this is the idea, you see, that the horse builds up muscles in the right areas so that it is more able/comfortable to carry its head in the competition outline.
another thing i find funny. that anky is one of the best dressage riders in the world at the moment and you are all here criticizing her techniques like you could do better?!? that makes no sense to me..
and of course you are now going to say that she doesnt respect her horses, she just wants to win... and i will tell you that anyone who has ridden a horse should know that it doesnt work like that, horseriding is not a sport where people devote their lives to it just to win, it is the partnership between the animal and the rider. just think how many years she has spent training and perfecting her horses, no body spends that much effort and time just to win!

I'm sorry you found my post so offensive, I wish you would re-read it as I did not criticize her nor did I say that I think I could do better In fact I KNOW I could never ride the way she does LOL I did not say that, nor am I going to say that she does not respect her horses as I do not know her and have no idea if she respects them or not LOL! Please do not put words in my mouth and over react to things I did not say

[MysticRealm]

Well, I guess I will ride my very happy, snaffle mouthed horse who has come leaps and bounds since I have gotten him, who is always happy for me to take him out and work him, my way and you can ride your horses your way.

[farmeress]

Originally Posted by MysticRealm

Well, I guess I will ride my very happy, snaffle mouthed horse who has come leaps and bounds since I have gotten him, who is always happy for me to take him out and work him, my way and you can ride your horses your way.

I hope you were not offended by my post

I in no way wanted to do that

But at this level of Dressage ...or any FEI level...the horse should be off the seat/back and away from the curb.

It is why soooooooooo many Dressage people are against Rollkur...it goes against the goal of training for Dressage for the curb to be in such constant employment when they use in Rollkur.

Annndddd.....there is a huge difference in a Hunter/Jumper in the bridle when ridden than a Dressage horse.

See...Mystic....it could almost be comparible to a pro riding a hot horse over a 4'6" jumper course in draw reins .....that level of "sin" sorta....

That is why Dressage people are up in arms about this type of training and the detrimental affect.

[Libby-Jane]

sorry. i was in a VERY bad mood and i am soo sorry

and now that i re read the ENTIRE POSTS i have come to agree that it is not the best method
i dont use it myself, but as i read more and more i realised that i was silly to say what i did.

sorry if i offended anyone!!