[Sandra-A1]

Yes, it does cost a great deal to purchase a really good Andalusian.
While the number of these horses in this country is slowly increasing the number when compared to the other, better known, breeds is actually small.

According to an article Gareth Selwood (Welcome To Selwood Park Stable - A Division Of Bricco Enterprises INC ) wrote for the USE website:

Today, there are only about 4,500 Andalusian horses in the United States. Worldwide, these majestic horses number less than 20,000. Each year, the International Andalusian and Lusitano Horse Association registers only 400 new foals in this country. These are very small numbers relative to other breeds.

In fact, the Andalusian is one of the rarest breeds in the United States, and in some states, they are more rare than in others. As a result, many Americans have never seen an Andalusian, or, perhaps, have seen only a very few.

The Andalusian is experiencing a rapid growth in popularity in response to an active promotion of this rare breed by the International Andalusian and Lusitano Horse Associations. Many new owners are discovering the wonderful attributes of this breed at IALHA competitions that give Andalusian owners the opportunity to show off their magnificent horses in dressage and other performance classes.


Above found at: United States Equestrian Federation, Inc : Eq Sports : Breeds : Andalusian

[freedom32]

There is an Andalusian farm near me, they are such beautiful horses! I've known the owner for some time, and have enjoyed many visits to her place.

CENTAUR FARMS INC. ... Andalusian and Friesian Horses

[cassidy]

he looks nice an has lovely movement too

i dont think hes fat either

[Solsalia]

Maybe i'm not used to the body type then. So that is normal?

[trotplease]

Sandra,

You truly are a fan of the Andalusian and your posts covered quite a bit of ground!

Andalusians are pretty versatile horses, but with their low numbers in the US we are only now starting to see them in open events such as Dressage and Reining, though they are well suited to both stlyes of riding.

The benefit of the Iberian (including Lusitano - same original bloodlines as Andalusians but bred in Portugal rather than in Spain and to a somewhat lesser extent, the Lippizan) types of horses is that they do have more of a "round" type of movement, meaning that they load their hind legs (i.e. collection) more naturally than most other breeds.

For performance sports that require innate balance, quick changes of direction, collection, sliding stops, etc. their natural carriage gives them something of an advantage in those movements.

The downside (especially for Dressage and jumping - my preferred disciplines) is that they tend to be rather short in front, not naturally apt to lengthen or extend their gaits, and easily evade the bit by ducking behind it - giving the impression of acceptance of contact, but sadly lacking it.

Iberian horses are also known for "tremino" or high, flashy knee action and the tendency to either wing or paddle with their front legs. For breed shows, this is considered an acceptable breed characteristic, but in open Pleasure may not be so well recieved by judges.

This is where the crossbreds come heavily into play - the Azteca (QH/Andalusian) Hispano-Arabe (also known to some as an Aralusian - Arabian/Andalusian) are two of the most popular crosses for pleasure, western performance and family horses.

For competitive english performance horses, we are seeing an influx of Warmblood/Andalusian crosses (I am breeding my Dutch mare to an Andalusian in 2008).

The body type of the stallion originally posted is fairly close to the standard for the breed. As it was noted, in the one photo he is out of condition and does look a bit flabby. He is also a bit longer in the back than the ideal, with a neck that is somewhat short.

If you do a search for Andalusians, there are a ton of photos out there, the IAHLA site being a good starting point, as there are a bevy of images from the National shows which will give you a great idea of what the breed standards are.

Billie

[Mary6478]

wow at first I thought you meant you were surfing (in water) and saw a horse guy on the beach!! LMAO! I must be tired!
I love that breed to. He is a very pretty stallion, his butt is a little high tho.

[trotplease]

In Wisconsin we actually have one of the largest number of Andalusians in the US. Two notable breeders are Gareth Selwood of Selwood Park as well as Julie and Chuck Stammler (who I have ridden, trained and shown for, including their stallion El Nino BR , and mares Plateada BR, Madura BR, Rhianna BR, Rossa Lita BR and Rita BR) of Branch River Ranch Andalusians. Both of these breeders have a literal ton of National awards... (I only have two on my wall...the show is in Texas, so very expensive to get to)!

While I don't know their websites offhand, both have a wealth of information and photos available.

[Sandra-A1]

IMO, and because of all I have read.....true "Termino" is not paddling - it is an outward swimming motion of the forelimbs, originating at the shoulder.
Paddling or dishing originates in the lower limbs of the horse.

Speaking for myself......I'd rather have an Andalusian who wings "slightly" than one who moves perfectly straight. To me, it's part of the breed. If I want a horse who doesn't wing at all, then I shouldn't be looking at Andalusians.........That's just my opinion, however.

JP Giacomini says that the winging is a result of the looseness of the Iberian joints - and it's one of the things that make the Iberian horses so smooth. JP took an Andalusian with excessive winging....but the more JP worked with him, got him moving correctly and developing the right muscles, the more the winging diminished.

The way I remember the rules...they used to say that winging is not a fault as long as it doesn't inhibit forward movement.

Termino consists of abduction of the forelimb with protraction, and it is characteristic of all horses that have any significant amount of Iberian ancestry, including, very often, not only Andalusians but Lipizzans and Mustangs. In these cases it may not be to as great a degree as in the Peruvian horses, where people have purposely tried to breed for the trait, but it is nevertheless there and it is not to be confused with "winging", "paddling", or any conformational defect.
Winging/paddling movement is quite different from termino and may proceed either from a structural defect or from crookedness."

Here is a good article describing it with illustrations.

Curry Ranch Industries, Bonanza, Oregon

As for the Andalusian's suitability for Dressage & Jumping....
As with any breed.... careful selection and training of the individual is what is important. You cannot say a whole breed is, or is not, one particular way when it comes to a specific competitive event.

Since the 1990s individuals in this breed have taken the competitive scene by storm and is now one of the most popular breeds in Continental Europe and the UK, also gaining an ever increasing following in the pleasure riding circles.
Evento, ridden by Ignacia Rambla. was placed 14th at the Atlanta Olympics. Invasor, ridden by Rafael Soto Andrade, was placed 6th in Dressage overall at the World Equestrian Games in 2002 in Jerez.
Also the Spanish dressage team won the team bronze medal at the Athens Olympics with 3 of the 4 members riding Purebred Spanish Horses. In 2005, Spain won the Bronze Medal again, at the European Dressage Championships in Hagen, Germany.
While I do not have specifics for 2006, I would not be the least bit surprised to read that there were again individual horses of this breed who were also successful on a World level.


Speaking for myself..... think that I would look toward the PSP bloodlines if Dressage and/or Eventing was my major interest....after all......the Lusitano stallion Novilheiro was a Grand Prix dressage horse, an intermediate eventer and British Show-Jumping leading money earner in 1983.
I think that careful selection of bloodlines with those particular uses in mind will result in a suitable Andalusian for those events.

Andalusians are amazing and I look forward to the day my long-time dream comes true....I have one (or two) of my very own!

[Solsalia]

Originally Posted by Mary6478

wow at first I thought you meant you were surfing (in water) and saw a horse guy on the beach!! LMAO! I must be tired!
I love that breed to. He is a very pretty stallion, his butt is a little high tho.

LOL! How funny, just reread the opending thread and now understand.. ha ha ha.

I bet you'll own one or two someday Sandra Maybe me too. I would love to learn more about other breeds. I guess I was more closed minded before but didnt' realize it. It's amazing how a species can be so different in it's own.

[trotplease]

Sandra,
SOrry to turn this into a somewhat offtopic discussion... but,

You are correct, Termino is not paddling or winging, but I made mention of it as it (along with winging/paddling, the terminology your average horseperson will use when watching an Andalusian in motion) is indeed a part of the Andalusian breed. So, I have oversimplified for the sake of clarity for those not familiar with the breed or type of horses we are discussing.

My point is that if one were to have the goal of competing on a local open show circuit, something that is a characteristic of a rare breed but is considered a fault in the more "common" breeds may not be well received by judges.

Sadly, I have experienced this with the Andalusians that I show, as well as with my own Gypsy Drum horses in the past. While these shows were not truly important to us, it is disappointing to know that a judge isn't even looking at your horse because it is outside of their experience and they do not know how to judge them. In our area we also face this with our Warmbloods as the local judges are unfamiliar with them.

For the average rider, and based on my experience (I was a working student for Dominique Barbier for 2 years - with 18 stallions, 2 mares and 4 geldings, mostly of Iberian descent) as well as showing through the national level, it is my belief that the Andalusian in general is not an ideal Dressage mount for the amateur, but let us save the details of this belief (that is really off of the topic at hand) for a private discussion if you like.

There are horses competing at the World level that are fabulous, no doubt about it, but in daily life as a Dressage and Eventing rider/trainer with a great deal of business in the Andalusian world, I do not see the same level of "success" when amateur riders are coupled with Iberian horses (same holds true for Friesians) versus a WB, QH, Arabain, etc.

I personally favor crosses, as stated earlier and would encourage Solsalia (the original poster) to consider an Andalusian/Lusitano (PRE, PSP, whatever - this discussion need not be about the country of origin or approval the stallion has, especially for a crossbred, where it matters not) if she likes the type and is considering breeding her mare.

I like Andalusians, if I didn't I surely would not have a business that is made up of 25% of these horses! They are fun, athletic, energetic and lovely horses. The mane and tail akin to those found on a Barbie doll horse, though a pain to maintain, are the icing on the cake that brings me back to my childhood dreams.

The reason I posted was to give very general information to a group of people who stated a lack of familiarity with the breed. From there, it is up to the individual to decide if they are interested enough to learn more about these horses, and there is a real wealth of detailed information available on the web that they can peruse, should they choose to become that involved.

Sandra, I know that you and I could have some fascinating chats, but let's save it for a venue where people want to go into the detailed technical information that we can provide!

Billie