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Discuss Am I responsible for this vet bill (My horse kicked another) at the Horse Health forum - Horse Forums.

Originally Posted by meljean http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com...ad-513027.html ETA. Making this mare, who you have said is so ...
  1. #51
    Senior Member ANuJourney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meljean View Post
    *Official VEGAS thread*

    ETA. Making this mare, who you have said is so reactive and frightened of anything at all wear bell boots on her halter is the height of cruelty, she is already spooky enough so you put them on her head??? No wonder this horse is like this. Calm, consistent SENSIBLE handling of a horse like this is key to their training. This is a horse that worries about things, you can see that in her head shape and she is going to be type to fret over things too, and the bell boots? Tells me a lot about your "training"....this poor poor horse.




    This is the mare you are writing about in this thread correct?

    I disagree with everyone else, and did from the first sentence you wrote.

    "Well she's done it again, except this time she's hurt someone else. We've put tons of time into this mare and she now stands tied relatively nicely and quietly with minimal pulling back."


    You knew this girl, rightly or wrongly, was riding in the barn aisle, you knew you had warned her but did not see her get off horse either. Yet you walked away from a mare that was in a position to lash out at someone walking behind her.

    You are at fault here. And you should pay vet bill too.

    Your horse is the dangerous one and in any barn that owner has the responsibility to keep others safe. Which means you don't tie horse up in area that others can or might go behind horse, or go off and leave it either.

    Out of the way means no one can get close to it, as in you tack up and groom in stall, not in aisle where others are going to be.

    From what you have written in your other threads about this horse, you are not experienced enough to be dealing with it, especially if you are in a boarding situation where the other people are not experienced enough to be more careful around this animal.

    What if next time horse feels like kicking out, the one getting kicked is a child and horse gets them in face? Or directly over heart and stops their heart? Will you be mad at them for getting killed?

    Like it or not, your horse is a danger to anyone around it. You can't, don't or won't do anything to keep it from being a menace either, if you think this is a horse to have where anyone can walk behind it.

    Part and parcel of boarding your horse is that you act in a responsible manner, which you aren't, first by having a horse like this there, and secondly by not doing more to contain her behaviors.

    I would imagine if any of us could see your handling of this mare, we could identify quite a few errors you are making with her, that are causing problems on top of ones she already came with.

    But her kicking out while under hand more or less, tells me you have gotten no where in her "training" at all.

    And imagine you would be all up in arms if someone's horse had hurt yours, or you, as would all the other posters.
    I have to agree with this. This kind of horse is a liability. I had a three year old that was absolutely frantic all the time. She had barely any handling and would be calm and quiet one second then lash out and kick you the next. We bought her sight unseen as a sort of rescue deal, not knowing these problems. We had her for less than a week before we realized she was way too unsafe to b keeping in a boarding situation with young kids and inexperienced horse-people. The next day this horse was left unattended in a paddock. There was a mom and her kid there, he was four if I remember right. They were told numerous times not to go near the horse because she was very dangerous and would kick. They seemed to understand and left her alone, but the kid ended up wandering away from mom (she was on her phone the entire time so she wasn't watching her chil) and ran behind the mare. Needless to say she kicked out and nailed him right in the face. Luckily she just nicked him and didn't cause any damage at all. But there was still an ambulance and an er trip. But still, in this situation, it is our/the boarding facility's fault for not keeping an eye on the dangerous horse when there are other people around. Luckily for us the mother didn't press any charges. Had she done so, we would have been in the wrong.

    Please just take my word for it and either get the horse out of a boarding situation or sell her. If you nor the others at your barn know how to deal with this behavior it is just a law suit waiting to happen. I hated selling the three year old, because I wanted to fix her but I had no way of keeping her on my own property/in a more private setting. I had to do it so no one/ no horse was hurt.
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  2. #52
    Senior Member+ Reyven's Avatar
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    Horses kick...it is a part of life. Even a passive horse who is NOT known for kicking can kick out and injure another horse or person. They are animals and have minds of their own.
    I do not believe you are liable or responsible for any of this. Horses get tied up ALL the time for tacking and ANY horse could have kicked out. You gave fair warning (providing she heard you). If she wanted to get by all she had to do was ask you to move your horse. From the sounds of it there were plenty of other ways she could have gone that didn't include going behind your horse.
    At a lesson barn I used to ride and work at we had a known kicker. He was a lesson horse and a great one under saddle. It was understood by everyone that he was a kicker and nobody was to walk directly behind him. There were young children at this barn and even they undertsood that they could not go behind this horse...their parents also made sure of it. If someone is stupid enough to walk behind a horse they don't know, or that they know to be a known kicker, and gets injured, that is entirely on them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reyven View Post
    Horses kick...it is a part of life. Even a passive horse who is NOT known for kicking can kick out and injure another horse or person. They are animals and have minds of their own.
    I do not believe you are liable or responsible for any of this. Horses get tied up ALL the time for tacking and ANY horse could have kicked out. You gave fair warning (providing she heard you). If she wanted to get by all she had to do was ask you to move your horse. From the sounds of it there were plenty of other ways she could have gone that didn't include going behind your horse.
    At a lesson barn I used to ride and work at we had a known kicker. He was a lesson horse and a great one under saddle. It was understood by everyone that he was a kicker and nobody was to walk directly behind him. There were young children at this barn and even they undertsood that they could not go behind this horse...their parents also made sure of it. If someone is stupid enough to walk behind a horse they don't know, or that they know to be a known kicker, and gets injured, that is entirely on them.
    I somewhat disagree. I should not have to go out of my way to find the owner of a horse who is aggressive (because she left it alone) just to take MY horse by it or to it's stall. Her horse is the problem horse in this situation, and other should not have to go out of their way all the time due to the fact the owner of the aggressive horse is not taking the proper precautions she needs to, to ensure the safety of everyone else in that barn. It is wrong to force others to "adjust" around her horse, or go wandering around a farm trying to find her.
    If your horse is aggressive, it is up to YOU to take the right steps, not others to do it for you.
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    I'm on the fence about this one OP.

    I agree with everyone who says 'horses kick, you warned her, its her fault'. What she did was stupid, no doubt about it.

    At the same time, you probably shouldn't have left your horse unattended when someone was riding in, even if riding in the barn is stupidity, and even if you warned them, just in case. I have dealt with some terrible kickers, one in particular.

    Her name is Lindsey, and there is no safe spot to stand on this horse. She will kick you as soon as look at you, and she can literally cow kick you even if your at her head. Everyday when she goes to the track, we need to clear a path for her, just so that everyone is safe. While we warn everyone who comes near her, we also go to great lengths to keep her hind end turned away from any traffic. Some of us believe she has reproductive problems, because the behaviour is so dire, but the vets laughed it off. Lindsey is the only horse I have ever said SHOULD be dog food. One day, she WILL kill someone, no matter how carefully she is handled, or how much 'training' she gets.

    I am not saying your horse is a lost cause, just that, even though you warn people around you, you really really need to take even more care, because, like I said about Lindsey, one day, a well placed kick may kill someone. Then you certainly will be looking at trouble.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlowerChild View Post
    I somewhat disagree. I should not have to go out of my way to find the owner of a horse who is aggressive (because she left it alone) just to take MY horse by it or to it's stall. Her horse is the problem horse in this situation, and other should not have to go out of their way all the time due to the fact the owner of the aggressive horse is not taking the proper precautions she needs to, to ensure the safety of everyone else in that barn. It is wrong to force others to "adjust" around her horse, or go wandering around a farm trying to find her.
    If your horse is aggressive, it is up to YOU to take the right steps, not others to do it for you.
    I think that the OP is being SLIGHTLY irresponsible to keep a horse that continues to be a kicker, but in this situation she obviously did all she could. The horse was tied away from everyone else and the only thing past it was a wall, if I read right. In this one limited situation, the girl on the gelding was being irresponsible. She had no NEED to go by the OP's mare, yet she did anyway, and despite the OP being TEMPORARILY away from the horse.

    I think the only bad choice the OP is making is to keep the horse, but she is taking all the precautions necessary. Let's not red-bar her to death just for holding on to a horse she doesn't need to have.

    However, xoxoteamroper, please let me stress that this is not a good situation to put yourself in. If you keep this horse long enough, you WILL start putting too much trust in her, and she will hurt someone one day. It's hard to look at one of your own horses this way, but some horses are just not capable of being great horses. I've had to let go of a few rescues for the same reason, so I've been there. Some rescues are diamonds in the rough, but some of them ended up at the bottom for a reason..

    I had a rescued racking horse mare who was pulled from the kill pen. She was a little oddly put together, but no huge confo flaws other than just having an awkwardly small head. She was a witch. I could desensitize her to the plastic bag on one day, and the next day she was no better. I worked and worked and worked with her, but always when I was riding her, I was barely holding her between the lines. She was always one wrong move from a terrified, bucking fit. I knew it was out of fear, and I had to realize that I was never going to break her of it. So I brought her back to the rescue and tried a different horse, one with which I could do some REAL good.
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  6. #56
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    No riding in the barn aisle. That is just stupid. You gave her fair warning which she ignored. Heck no, don't pay the vet bill. I would never ride my horse directly behind another. That is just asking for it.
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    I have never had to have a person warn me that their animal kicks to keep me from riding within kicking distance of it. I just assume that any animal sthat I do not know well will kick my animal. It is my responsiblity to keep my animal safe when I am handling/riding it and I can't do that if I ride it close to another animal that may not be nice.

    The OP is not at fault here, not at all regardless of what you thing about her horse or her training skills.
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    And what if this incident happened in the field? Would the father still hold you liable for the bill? Puhlease.

    They are animals, and have their own minds. While it is our job as humans to teach them correct behavior, accidents happen.

    Now, I likely would have moved my horse out of the barn if someone was riding up and down the aisle. I've never seen someone do that, but it's a dangerous practice, and would make me (and likely my horse) uncomfortable, so to mitigate risk to myself and my horse, I would have walked her out and tied her to a fence or post.

    While I do not think you are liable for damages to horse or rider, I will caution you that even offering to pay a portion of the bill (I believed PaintedRocket suggested) can be viewed as an omission of guilt. If they are persistent, and lawyer up, you should consult a lawyer yourself, and avoid all communication with them. We live in a litigious society
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANuJourney View Post
    There was a mom and her kid there, he was four if I remember right. They were told numerous times not to go near the horse because she was very dangerous and would kick. They seemed to understand and left her alone, but the kid ended up wandering away from mom (she was on her phone the entire time so she wasn't watching her chil) and ran behind the mare. Needless to say she kicked out and nailed him right in the face. Luckily she just nicked him and didn't cause any damage at all. But there was still an ambulance and an er trip. But still, in this situation, it is our/the boarding facility's fault for not keeping an eye on the dangerous horse when there are other people around. Luckily for us the mother didn't press any charges. Had she done so, we would have been in the wrong.
    Not to derail the thread, but this bugs me. Why aren't parents expected to be PARENTS anymore?? Why would it be your fault that this woman wasn't watching her child and it got hurt? It seems these days that everything is someone elses fault, especially when it comes to kids; it never has to do with the complete lack of parenting. Your horse was safely contained behind a fence, not even in the barn or walking around where people/the child was. If that same child were to suddenly run out into a busy road and get hit by a car because the mom wasn't paying attention, is it the driver's fault (assuming they were sober, not distracted, and tried to stop/get out of the path of the child)? I'm glad the mom didn't try to stick the blame/bills onto you or anyone else.
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    What I don't understand is if your mare is in the back with only a wall behind her... then why would the girl even ride there? How much space was between your horse and said wall? That bit just doesn't make sense to me.

    I would also like to know what the barn rule is concerning riding inside the barn. Is it allowed or not or is there no particular rule.

    Also, when the incident happened was your horse wearing a red ribbon?

    From a legal standpoint if you know your horse has a history of kicking (beyond what is average for a horse) and the girl's father can prove that. Then there is an argument for negligence since you left the horse unattended.
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