Am I out of line or is this guy just trying to get some extra cash?

nrhareiner · 10-28-2009, 11:43 AM

Well I will say this. I can see both sides. My contracts I have with my trainer is that if I sell a horse who is in training with him he gets a 10% commission. He also get that commission if I sell the horse with in 30 says of the horse coming home. However there is nothing that says anything past that or if I can or can not show that the horse was trained by him. Which is really easy for me as he showed my horses for several years. It is part of public knowledge and easily found.

I personally in my ad I would just tell what the horse does have a video and say the horse was pro trained but no put any trainer info in the ad. If a person contacts you and is serious about the horse then go into it at that point. In reality it dose not matter how much pro training a horse might or might not have had in the past it will come down to what that horse can do now. This is where a video will come in handy.

SunBun · 10-28-2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nrhareiner

Well I will say this. I can see both sides. My contracts I have with my trainer is that if I sell a horse who is in training with him he gets a 10% commission. He also get that commission if I sell the horse with in 30 says of the horse coming home. However there is nothing that says anything past that or if I can or can not show that the horse was trained by him. Which is really easy for me as he showed my horses for several years. It is part of public knowledge and easily found.

I personally in my ad I would just tell what the horse does have a video and say the horse was pro trained but no put any trainer info in the ad. If a person contacts you and is serious about the horse then go into it at that point. In reality it dose not matter how much pro training a horse might or might not have had in the past it will come down to what that horse can do now. This is where a video will come in handy.

I find this interesting. Isn't that why you initially paid him to train your horse...so you can do what you want with that training...be it sell or what have you?

Curious!

AlKhamsa · 10-28-2009, 12:12 PM

Good point! i always assumed when you "bought" training it was yours to do what you want with it. if you pay for the training then i don't think you should also have to give the trainer money if you sell YOUR horse and YOUR training....idk...maybe i am wrong. interesting,though...

nrhareiner · 10-28-2009, 01:29 PM

They do that b/c a lot of the times the trainer is the one who will end up showing the horse to the buyer. They are also the ones who usually will get a high class of client in to look at the horse which will get you more money.

This is the norm when selling horses through a trainer or buying one for that matter. However I limit that to 10% and they can split it anyway they like. Some times the trainer selling the horse will take 10% and the trainer buying the horse or working with the buyer wants anouther 10%. Me no play that game. I will pay the 10% if my trainer dose some of the work to help get the horse sold but nothing past that.

meljean · 10-28-2009, 01:30 PM

Oh goodness, this is really an ugly thought, you don't suppose the trainer and wife reported this horse to insurance company as deceased do you??? And then sold horse, maybe after substituting a ringer? Horse with common or no markings???

Or one burned to death? Or swapped papers on horse for some illegal reason, like maybe horse was part of divorce settlement??? And claimed it was no good, or died?

Wonder if the woman/husband left owing the trainer money, they said would pay if ever sold horse??? Or could have been tax dodge? Really didn't train horse that much? Just used it as business expense???

Or "trainer" could be claiming that he isn't training for fees, getting disability, doing something shady???

I agree that something else is going on behind scenes you aren't privy to, BUT you keep copies of everything concerning horse, and write down everything said between all parties, phone bills, Youtube videos, and tuck away. Because then if and when whatever trainer is doing comes to light, you will have your paperwork, if IRS or whoever tracks down horses sold.

Bruce Wiley · 10-28-2009, 01:36 PM

This can work against horse trainers with having the client and new owner filing paperwork in the hope to sue, stating the training services were inadequate, or ineffective and specially if someone was injured in the process, and this also has time limitations and other restrictions.

Most likely this trainer didn't have this part covered, instilled into it's contract.
By the sounds of it, this indivdual didn't attaining a commission and they can't collect because it wasn't in black and white.

Theres certain limitations such as the amount of time which has gone by to where neither the client or trainer can use this as a solid selling point.

When horse professionals recieved this great form of advertisting and if all of the desired results were rendered and has brought about the enhance effect on the client's horse, it must be stated and understood and also signed by the client/seller to surrender any or a certain amount for the modification of the horse's perfomances.

I don't feel you were out of line.
This is a legal issue, in which the trainer should have had legal protection against.

I hope this insight helps.

SunBun · 10-28-2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nrhareiner

They do that b/c a lot of the times the trainer is the one who will end up showing the horse to the buyer. They are also the ones who usually will get a high class of client in to look at the horse which will get you more money.

This is the norm when selling horses through a trainer or buying one for that matter. However I limit that to 10% and they can split it anyway they like. Some times the trainer selling the horse will take 10% and the trainer buying the horse or working with the buyer wants anouther 10%. Me no play that game. I will pay the 10% if my trainer dose some of the work to help get the horse sold but nothing past that.

Yes, that makes some sense. If the trainer was working to get the horse sold, I don't think some sort of compensation is out of the question.

But wanting 10% just because they trained it, and the horse is now getting sold? Makes no sense to me!

sammy08m · 10-28-2009, 02:14 PM

You are not out of line at all! that is ridiculous that he got upset over that
if he dosent want his training to be recognized or want to be bothered with business then it must not be too professional!

good luck selling!

AlKhamsa · 10-28-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammy08m

You are not out of line at all! that is ridiculous that he got upset over that
if he dosent want his training to be recognized or want to be bothered with business then it must not be too professional!

good luck selling!

lol...that is what i thinking....i mean the horse isn't "all that",but is pretty good. she knows some good WP stuff,but she was not trained near to the extent they told me she was! and looking back i should have seen red flags alllllll over. when i went to ride her and try her out the previous owner wouldn't even let me trot her! she said i could walk only. i was thinking 'soundness issue'? but she lunged her and she has no issues like that....idk....something fishy is going on and i don't want any part of it. they are hiding something...otherwise they wouldn't make such a big deal of FREE advertising ...lol....

i hope she isn't stolen or part of an insurance claim or something

i hadn't even thought of that!

SWRerider · 10-28-2009, 04:06 PM

Sorry, but I am with the trainer on this. Since the horse was trained for a previous owner, it must have been a while ago. How long was it in trianing- 30 days, 6 mos, a year, several years?
The trainer has no idea how the horse has been ridden, trained, or handled since that time- and the horse probably is not just the same as when the horse left him. The horse could have become miserable, acquired bad habits, been mishandled in a way that could reflect badly on the trainer. He doesn't know you.
Why not sell the horse on its merits? The buyer wants to know how the horse performs NOW- and that is what matters.
Sounds like you are needing to "talk him up", and I'd be suspicious of you.

10-28-2009, 11:43 AM	#31
nrhareiner Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,072	Well I will say this. I can see both sides. My contracts I have with my trainer is that if I sell a horse who is in training with him he gets a 10% commission. He also get that commission if I sell the horse with in 30 says of the horse coming home. However there is nothing that says anything past that or if I can or can not show that the horse was trained by him. Which is really easy for me as he showed my horses for several years. It is part of public knowledge and easily found. I personally in my ad I would just tell what the horse does have a video and say the horse was pro trained but no put any trainer info in the ad. If a person contacts you and is serious about the horse then go into it at that point. In reality it dose not matter how much pro training a horse might or might not have had in the past it will come down to what that horse can do now. This is where a video will come in handy. __________________ I'll Keep my Guns you can keep your change. An armed person is a citizen an un-armed person is a subject.

10-28-2009, 01:29 PM	#34
nrhareiner Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,072	They do that b/c a lot of the times the trainer is the one who will end up showing the horse to the buyer. They are also the ones who usually will get a high class of client in to look at the horse which will get you more money. This is the norm when selling horses through a trainer or buying one for that matter. However I limit that to 10% and they can split it anyway they like. Some times the trainer selling the horse will take 10% and the trainer buying the horse or working with the buyer wants anouther 10%. Me no play that game. I will pay the 10% if my trainer dose some of the work to help get the horse sold but nothing past that. __________________ I'll Keep my Guns you can keep your change. An armed person is a citizen an un-armed person is a subject.

10-28-2009, 01:30 PM	#35
meljean Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NW MO Posts: 1,017	Oh goodness, this is really an ugly thought, you don't suppose the trainer and wife reported this horse to insurance company as deceased do you??? And then sold horse, maybe after substituting a ringer? Horse with common or no markings??? Or one burned to death? Or swapped papers on horse for some illegal reason, like maybe horse was part of divorce settlement??? And claimed it was no good, or died? Wonder if the woman/husband left owing the trainer money, they said would pay if ever sold horse??? Or could have been tax dodge? Really didn't train horse that much? Just used it as business expense??? Or "trainer" could be claiming that he isn't training for fees, getting disability, doing something shady??? I agree that something else is going on behind scenes you aren't privy to, BUT you keep copies of everything concerning horse, and write down everything said between all parties, phone bills, Youtube videos, and tuck away. Because then if and when whatever trainer is doing comes to light, you will have your paperwork, if IRS or whoever tracks down horses sold. __________________ "If you listen to the horse, the horse will tell you what it wants to be." Dale Pugh "You can undo in five seconds, the training it took you five years to accomplish." Wyman E. Bennett Last edited by meljean; 10-28-2009 at 01:30 PM. Reason: Para

10-28-2009, 01:36 PM	#36
Bruce Wiley Senior Member+ Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 2,066	This can work against horse trainers with having the client and new owner filing paperwork in the hope to sue, stating the training services were inadequate, or ineffective and specially if someone was injured in the process, and this also has time limitations and other restrictions. Most likely this trainer didn't have this part covered, instilled into it's contract. By the sounds of it, this indivdual didn't attaining a commission and they can't collect because it wasn't in black and white. Theres certain limitations such as the amount of time which has gone by to where neither the client or trainer can use this as a solid selling point. When horse professionals recieved this great form of advertisting and if all of the desired results were rendered and has brought about the enhance effect on the client's horse, it must be stated and understood and also signed by the client/seller to surrender any or a certain amount for the modification of the horse's perfomances. I don't feel you were out of line. This is a legal issue, in which the trainer should have had legal protection against. I hope this insight helps. __________________ http://bwnaturalhorsemanship.spaces.live.com/ Bruce.

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10-28-2009, 12:12 PM	#33
AlKhamsa Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: The Great Northwest Posts: 17	Good point! i always assumed when you "bought" training it was yours to do what you want with it. if you pay for the training then i don't think you should also have to give the trainer money if you sell YOUR horse and YOUR training....idk...maybe i am wrong. interesting,though...

10-28-2009, 02:14 PM	#38
sammy08m Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Dallas, Tx Posts: 4 Blog Entries: 1	You are not out of line at all! that is ridiculous that he got upset over that if he dosent want his training to be recognized or want to be bothered with business then it must not be too professional! good luck selling!

10-28-2009, 04:06 PM	#40
SWRerider Full Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Rural southeast Arizona Posts: 125	Sorry, but I am with the trainer on this. Since the horse was trained for a previous owner, it must have been a while ago. How long was it in trianing- 30 days, 6 mos, a year, several years? The trainer has no idea how the horse has been ridden, trained, or handled since that time- and the horse probably is not just the same as when the horse left him. The horse could have become miserable, acquired bad habits, been mishandled in a way that could reflect badly on the trainer. He doesn't know you. Why not sell the horse on its merits? The buyer wants to know how the horse performs NOW- and that is what matters. Sounds like you are needing to "talk him up", and I'd be suspicious of you.