All you color genetic experts, I need your help!!!

Jeblina · 06-03-2008, 02:27 PM

A friendly debate was started between my friend and I at the barn. Another boarder mentioned my friend's horse as a chestnut, and she corrected the other boarder by saying that he was a sorrel.

I told them both that genetically speaking, a sorrel and a chestnut are the same thing....and they were simply experiencing a 'you say po-tay-to, I say po-tah-toe' situation. Kinda like girth and cinch...different terms, same use.

Sooooo....was I correct in saying that a sorrel and a chestnut are the same thing genetically?

Seein'Spots · 06-03-2008, 02:38 PM

same thing

Bernardo · 06-03-2008, 02:43 PM

Yes you were ... they are the same thing ..

AQHA you can registered them as a chestnut or a sorrel. I forget which is which now. But I think the way QH ppl classify chestnut/sorrel is opposite to what another breed classifies them as. In that one breed says a chestnut is more red but the other says the sorrel is more red. I forget which one thinks that way tho :P

doublebarr · 06-03-2008, 02:52 PM

Genetically speaking they are the same thing. However, phenotypically they are different according to breed. Think Liver Chestnut, not called "liver sorrel", and flaxen chestnut, also not called "flaxen sorrel". Sorrel is most usually used when the horse and all points are the same "red" color. The terms sorrel and chestnut can refer to the shade of the red "e" gene exhibited by the horse. And Arabs don't use sorrel, but chestnut exclusively.

Rumonek · 06-03-2008, 03:01 PM

HAHA! There was a breeder once that told me that a homozygous black stallion can throw chestnut but not sorrel!!! lol... that one made me crack up and pretty much decide I wouldn't be going to him for any breeding questions! lol

RiddleMeThis · 06-03-2008, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doublebarr

Genetically speaking they are the same thing. However, phenotypically they are different according to breed. Think Liver Chestnut, not called "liver sorrel", and flaxen chestnut, also not called "flaxen sorrel". Sorrel is most usually used when the horse and all points are the same "red" color. The terms sorrel and chestnut can refer to the shade of the red "e" gene exhibited by the horse. And Arabs don't use sorrel, but chestnut exclusively.

Ive heard it called flaxen sorrel.

But yes they both mean the same thing. The horse is ee.

Debbie z. · 06-04-2008, 03:29 AM

Genetically the shade of chesnut is determined by F gene. And Sooty gene will sometimes give an illusion of Liver chesnut because of the dark scattered hairs growing through coat.

Shannon · 06-04-2008, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Debbie z.

Genetically the shade of chesnut is determined by F gene. And Sooty gene will sometimes give an illusion of Liver chesnut because of the dark scattered hairs growing through coat.

I haven't heard this before?

I thought F only affected flaxen, and that wasn't even proven scientifically, just a theory. I've also heard that they believe Agouti affects the shade of chestnut just like it does in bays. I'd be interested to see any proof of this theory.

accphotography · 06-04-2008, 10:09 AM

It is genetically/biochemically IMPOSSIBLE for agouti to effect chestnut.

I too have never heard of F effecting shade at all.

ACC

gigga · 06-04-2008, 11:44 AM

ok Im gonna steel this tread and ask if a red dun can be flaxen???

06-03-2008, 02:27 PM	#1
Jeblina Senior Member+ Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Port St. John, FL Posts: 1,359 Images: 593 Blog Entries: 4	All you color genetic experts, I need your help!!! A friendly debate was started between my friend and I at the barn. Another boarder mentioned my friend's horse as a chestnut, and she corrected the other boarder by saying that he was a sorrel. I told them both that genetically speaking, a sorrel and a chestnut are the same thing....and they were simply experiencing a 'you say po-tay-to, I say po-tah-toe' situation. Kinda like girth and cinch...different terms, same use. Sooooo....was I correct in saying that a sorrel and a chestnut are the same thing genetically? __________________ If you don't like something, change it... If you can't change it.... Change the way you think about it!

06-03-2008, 02:43 PM	#3
Bernardo Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 2,410 Images: 41	Yes you were ... they are the same thing .. AQHA you can registered them as a chestnut or a sorrel. I forget which is which now. But I think the way QH ppl classify chestnut/sorrel is opposite to what another breed classifies them as. In that one breed says a chestnut is more red but the other says the sorrel is more red. I forget which one thinks that way tho :P __________________ //kimberley\\ *

06-03-2008, 03:01 PM	#5
Rumonek Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Leonidas, MI Posts: 1,167 Images: 13	HAHA! There was a breeder once that told me that a homozygous black stallion can throw chestnut but not sorrel!!! lol... that one made me crack up and pretty much decide I wouldn't be going to him for any breeding questions! lol __________________ Rumonek- Working Towards Becoming RUMONEK BASHKIR CURLIES http://www.freewebs.com/rumonekcurlies The newest Curly Advocate on HGS! Thanks Lindsay

06-04-2008, 03:29 AM	#7
Debbie z. Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: New Jersey Posts: 588 Images: 18	Genetically the shade of chesnut is determined by F gene. And Sooty gene will sometimes give an illusion of Liver chesnut because of the dark scattered hairs growing through coat. __________________ 1st comes the horse, then my family, and then myself..

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06-03-2008, 02:38 PM	#2
Seein'Spots Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Somewhere siphoning gas..BRB Posts: 694 Images: 104	same thing

06-03-2008, 02:52 PM	#4
doublebarr Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Missouri Posts: 7,193 Images: 548	Genetically speaking they are the same thing. However, phenotypically they are different according to breed. Think Liver Chestnut, not called "liver sorrel", and flaxen chestnut, also not called "flaxen sorrel". Sorrel is most usually used when the horse and all points are the same "red" color. The terms sorrel and chestnut can refer to the shade of the red "e" gene exhibited by the horse. And Arabs don't use sorrel, but chestnut exclusively.

06-04-2008, 10:09 AM	#9
accphotography Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 3,836	It is genetically/biochemically IMPOSSIBLE for agouti to effect chestnut. I too have never heard of F effecting shade at all. ACC

06-04-2008, 11:44 AM	#10
gigga Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Iceland Posts: 400 Images: 3	ok Im gonna steel this tread and ask if a red dun can be flaxen???