All About the Tap

freedom32 · 12-19-2005, 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fox Glove

If you watch the afore mentioned video clip.
If you get nothing else out of it,
You will have to admire this guys moxy..
OH MAH GAWD, watch it just to see the pants..

Paula

I spent a half hour d/ling that video, and the pants made it worth every second..........I hope those were a gift from your mom or something E4u2

Endorphins4u2 · 12-19-2005, 05:54 AM

I take from your above reply that you are unwilling or unable to answer the questions ask of you.Asking if you can post vets real names is an interesting ploy.(you could pm them).Are you saying by this that these are the worlds top experts on endorphins that would not provide you with definite answers?

That's excactly what I'm saying,

First I asked:

Dr Craig Suann Senior Official Veterinary Surgeon
NSW Thoroughbred Racing Board,
Chairman of the International Group of Specialist Racing Veterinarians
The RIRDC Equine R&D Committee member,

About doing some research on Endorphins and Dr Suann told me to ask;

Dr Thomas Tobin
Veterinarian, Pharmacologist, Toxicologist
Professor of Veterinary Science, Gluck Equine Research Center, University of Kentucky ,
Professor, Graduate Center for Toxicology, University of Kentucky
http://thomastobin.com/

Who told me to ask DR Steve Kamberlin who speacialized in Endorphins, but I couldn't find him anyway on the Internet,

So then, I started corresponding with ;

Sue McDonnell, PhD,
Author and equine behavior specialist
Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist

About the twitch's "Blow-point", and she stop corresponding because I told her the theory of the Endorphins running out causing "Blow-point" could actually be the opposite, so I didn't hear from DR McDonnell again

Then I was corresponding with "The Horse" magazine and told them I could have something interesting for them soon, then then stopped after I sent them a demo..They probably thought I was a fruitcake or something..

So I then went back to Dr Craig Suann and sent him some notes on ;

1) The dangers of letting little Tiffany hold the twitch while mommy pulled "Stormy's" mane for the show

2) The possibility of purposley using the twitch before a race to burn up a horse's energy to hinder the horse's performance,
(You saw what the tap can do, a twitch does the same only slower)

So, Dr Suann probably thought I was a fruitcake too...

So, then I ran out of options and started the practical research myself..

Who is going to listen to me ??

Also,

Can you prove it is not bad Yes or No

Do you NEVER use a twitch not any more the tap is better.

Do you think this could be dangerous to try in some emergencies emergencies are already dangerous, desperate times, take desperate actions...

Do you want me to work for you If it can help find some answers I'm looking for, Yes

Have you researched the link between excess endorphins and depression in humans? I ride horses ? Do you think I have done Human research ?
can this be quantified as not being applicable to horses? In my opinion, I don't think comparing a human brain to any aniaml's brain is accurate enough.

Forgive the grammer...

Moostang · 12-19-2005, 06:29 AM

End4u2-
I don't believe you ever properly introduced youself to our users, we have an introduction section. You can tell us all about what you do, which might give some users a better idea of why you are doing this.. and you can tell us all about your pink pants

Now back to the topic.. this might have been said before, but I am having a hard time keeping up with the way this jumps around.
One of the problems I see with this method, is yes a twitch works slower, but you can't have your horse falling over or neck turned while trying to pull a mane, or a a shoer work on their feet. Or do you find after a full tap, when they do get up, they are a bit calmer? Or do they get rush of energy back? It is hard to tell with your videos because it appears that horse is fairly calm and is used to being tapped.

Endorphins4u2 · 12-19-2005, 06:57 AM

They definitely calmer if you use the full-tap, that's why they lied down because there tired.....they don't want to get up, no energy rush at all.

Your horse won't just fall over, they will sink slowerly that Half-tap is good enough for most jobs anyway, if you think this doesn't work just do the full-tap once and you'll know how far to go for different jobs, it's very flexable to use, just turn the head when you need it...I posted a farrier technique earlier somewhere please check that, also it would be a bit hard to do a nice mane job if the neck was turned anyway I think, you can make your own way of doing this if you want, I just headed you in the right direction. Play with it and you will master it..

I've got more video's, just got to choose carefully, I think u know what I mean...

I'll do the intro thing tomorrow ok...

Also, if you wanna try this on men, you must practice first so.....

"TAP ME " "TAP ME"

MissBandit · 12-19-2005, 09:08 AM

Can we please stick to topic. I would hate to have to close this thread simply due to chit chat.

SammyDoodle · 12-19-2005, 10:41 AM

Here is a question ...

Would it be possible for a small person about 5ft tall to do this with a big horse on the ground - say over 17hh?

I actually dont have the need to try it - my horse and pony are very well behaved - it is just a question as I think it would be difficult -

When I had my big horse, Denver (17.1hh) I found it hard enough to get his rug on - lol

BornToRide · 12-19-2005, 12:29 PM

ok well here its a thing for people to think about. someone in the area had used it on one of her horses. she tried it about 4 times!! and she had tried it for about 2 days and didnt like it. she said her horse was very unresposive after and i might add. because we had this discussion at work i work with her. her horse passed away 2 days ago? the cause unknown but it was not an old horse. only 5!! and she also seems to think that that was what harmed her horse in that time!!! so why if a product was harmful would you use it on your horses ??? its just kinda funny that she used that "tap" to get more control and he horse died 2 days ago ?? could be just bad timing maybe! but who knows ?? how do you know this could not be the cause ?? so who would want to take that chance ?? it could verywell the the cause because this mare was perfectly healthy !!!! something to consider!!!!

Friesiangirl · 12-19-2005, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BornToRide

ok well here its a thing for people to think about. someone in the area had used it on one of her horses. she tried it about 4 times!! and she had tried it for about 2 days and didnt like it. she said her horse was very unresposive after and i might add. because we had this discussion at work i work with her. her horse passed away 2 days ago? the cause unknown but it was not an old horse. only 5!! and she also seems to think that that was what harmed her horse in that time!!! so why if a product was harmful would you use it on your horses ??? its just kinda funny that she used that "tap" to get more control and he horse died 2 days ago ?? could be just bad timing maybe! but who knows ?? how do you know this could not be the cause ?? so who would want to take that chance ?? it could verywell the the cause because this mare was perfectly healthy !!!! something to consider!!!!

*gulp* Are you serious, a five-year-old mare died from this? wow, over-dose on body chemicals maybe. You never know.

BornToRide · 12-19-2005, 12:38 PM

thats my point !! its just i find it odd that she tried it and then her horse actually died ?? i mean what are the cahnces of a perfectly health horse dying???? and i mean it was realsing chemicals so im thinking that this might be the answer right !!! the vet is checking it out so i will know for sure why !!! but a perfectly healthy mare tried this tap and the horse died 2 days ago ?? im thinking this might be the cause!! and so does the owner

Moostang · 12-19-2005, 12:46 PM

Did she use the tap or some other method like a war bridle?
If endorphins cause death, then a lot of windsucks should be getting sick.

Of course this is assuming that what is happening during the tap is really caused by endrophins. Since there are no studies yet, this could be like the chicken thing (head under wing) or flipping a shark onto its back (the basically go to sleep).. one of those unknowns..

12-19-2005, 06:29 AM	#93
Moostang Senior Moderator Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Northern Calif Posts: 9,786 Images: 680 Blog Entries: 55	End4u2- I don't believe you ever properly introduced youself to our users, we have an introduction section. You can tell us all about what you do, which might give some users a better idea of why you are doing this.. and you can tell us all about your pink pants Now back to the topic.. this might have been said before, but I am having a hard time keeping up with the way this jumps around. One of the problems I see with this method, is yes a twitch works slower, but you can't have your horse falling over or neck turned while trying to pull a mane, or a a shoer work on their feet. Or do you find after a full tap, when they do get up, they are a bit calmer? Or do they get rush of energy back? It is hard to tell with your videos because it appears that horse is fairly calm and is used to being tapped. __________________ Don't poke bears... give them honey! http://moostangproductions.com

12-19-2005, 09:08 AM	#95
MissBandit Senior Member+ Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 13,219 Images: 300 Blog Entries: 43	Can we please stick to topic. I would hate to have to close this thread simply due to chit chat. __________________ Founder is the #2 killer of horses. Learn how to prevent, spot and treat this deadly disease. Emergency Treatment http://www.laminitisclinic.org

12-19-2005, 12:29 PM	#97
BornToRide Senior Member+ Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,007 Images: 192	ok well here its a thing for people to think about. someone in the area had used it on one of her horses. she tried it about 4 times!! and she had tried it for about 2 days and didnt like it. she said her horse was very unresposive after and i might add. because we had this discussion at work i work with her. her horse passed away 2 days ago? the cause unknown but it was not an old horse. only 5!! and she also seems to think that that was what harmed her horse in that time!!! so why if a product was harmful would you use it on your horses ??? its just kinda funny that she used that "tap" to get more control and he horse died 2 days ago ?? could be just bad timing maybe! but who knows ?? how do you know this could not be the cause ?? so who would want to take that chance ?? it could verywell the the cause because this mare was perfectly healthy !!!! something to consider!!!! __________________ There are times when you can trust a horse, times when you can't and times when you have to. got to get the bagel with the cream cheeze oh the creamy creamy cheeze eh Blistering Winds? lmao

12-19-2005, 12:38 PM	#99
BornToRide Senior Member+ Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 4,007 Images: 192	thats my point !! its just i find it odd that she tried it and then her horse actually died ?? i mean what are the cahnces of a perfectly health horse dying???? and i mean it was realsing chemicals so im thinking that this might be the answer right !!! the vet is checking it out so i will know for sure why !!! but a perfectly healthy mare tried this tap and the horse died 2 days ago ?? im thinking this might be the cause!! and so does the owner __________________ There are times when you can trust a horse, times when you can't and times when you have to. got to get the bagel with the cream cheeze oh the creamy creamy cheeze eh Blistering Winds? lmao

12-19-2005, 12:46 PM	#100
Moostang Senior Moderator Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Northern Calif Posts: 9,786 Images: 680 Blog Entries: 55	Did she use the tap or some other method like a war bridle? If endorphins cause death, then a lot of windsucks should be getting sick. Of course this is assuming that what is happening during the tap is really caused by endrophins. Since there are no studies yet, this could be like the chicken thing (head under wing) or flipping a shark onto its back (the basically go to sleep).. one of those unknowns.. __________________ Don't poke bears... give them honey! http://moostangproductions.com

12-19-2005, 05:54 AM	#92
Endorphins4u2 Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Japan Posts: 708 Images: 170	I take from your above reply that you are unwilling or unable to answer the questions ask of you.Asking if you can post vets real names is an interesting ploy.(you could pm them).Are you saying by this that these are the worlds top experts on endorphins that would not provide you with definite answers? That's excactly what I'm saying, First I asked: Dr Craig Suann Senior Official Veterinary Surgeon NSW Thoroughbred Racing Board, Chairman of the International Group of Specialist Racing Veterinarians The RIRDC Equine R&D Committee member, About doing some research on Endorphins and Dr Suann told me to ask; Dr Thomas Tobin Veterinarian, Pharmacologist, Toxicologist Professor of Veterinary Science, Gluck Equine Research Center, University of Kentucky , Professor, Graduate Center for Toxicology, University of Kentucky http://thomastobin.com/ Who told me to ask DR Steve Kamberlin who speacialized in Endorphins, but I couldn't find him anyway on the Internet, So then, I started corresponding with ; Sue McDonnell, PhD, Author and equine behavior specialist Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist About the twitch's "Blow-point", and she stop corresponding because I told her the theory of the Endorphins running out causing "Blow-point" could actually be the opposite, so I didn't hear from DR McDonnell again Then I was corresponding with "The Horse" magazine and told them I could have something interesting for them soon, then then stopped after I sent them a demo..They probably thought I was a fruitcake or something.. So I then went back to Dr Craig Suann and sent him some notes on ; 1) The dangers of letting little Tiffany hold the twitch while mommy pulled "Stormy's" mane for the show 2) The possibility of purposley using the twitch before a race to burn up a horse's energy to hinder the horse's performance, (You saw what the tap can do, a twitch does the same only slower) So, Dr Suann probably thought I was a fruitcake too... So, then I ran out of options and started the practical research myself.. Who is going to listen to me ?? Also, Can you prove it is not bad Yes or No Do you NEVER use a twitch not any more the tap is better. Do you think this could be dangerous to try in some emergencies emergencies are already dangerous, desperate times, take desperate actions... Do you want me to work for you If it can help find some answers I'm looking for, Yes Have you researched the link between excess endorphins and depression in humans? I ride horses ? Do you think I have done Human research ? can this be quantified as not being applicable to horses? In my opinion, I don't think comparing a human brain to any aniaml's brain is accurate enough. Forgive the grammer...

12-19-2005, 06:57 AM	#94
Endorphins4u2 Senior Member+ Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Japan Posts: 708 Images: 170	They definitely calmer if you use the full-tap, that's why they lied down because there tired.....they don't want to get up, no energy rush at all. Your horse won't just fall over, they will sink slowerly that Half-tap is good enough for most jobs anyway, if you think this doesn't work just do the full-tap once and you'll know how far to go for different jobs, it's very flexable to use, just turn the head when you need it...I posted a farrier technique earlier somewhere please check that, also it would be a bit hard to do a nice mane job if the neck was turned anyway I think, you can make your own way of doing this if you want, I just headed you in the right direction. Play with it and you will master it.. I've got more video's, just got to choose carefully, I think u know what I mean... I'll do the intro thing tomorrow ok... Also, if you wanna try this on men, you must practice first so..... "TAP ME " "TAP ME"

12-19-2005, 10:41 AM	#96
SammyDoodle Senior Member+ Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Scotland Posts: 4,283 Images: 67 Blog Entries: 1	Here is a question ... Would it be possible for a small person about 5ft tall to do this with a big horse on the ground - say over 17hh? I actually dont have the need to try it - my horse and pony are very well behaved - it is just a question as I think it would be difficult - When I had my big horse, Denver (17.1hh) I found it hard enough to get his rug on - lol