Abandonment Epidemic

HoustonFarrier · 06-08-2009, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mftx4

Can we get the breeders associations and registries to kick in with restrictions as to allowing only a certain number of animals being bred per year? .

MCOA (Mastiff club of America) has been doing that for years......but...if one is NOT an MCOA member, they breed as they choose.

Steve

harp918 · 06-08-2009, 09:07 AM

This slaughter issue always seems to exist on a dual plane.

First, you have the issue of people being boneheads and not being responsible, yada, yada, yada. All the suffering, starving horses, etc.

Then you have the horses are food argument.

I think they have to be dissected separately and looked at separately in order to gain any ground here or elsewhere. Because IMHO, one has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

Let me start by saying something emphatically. YOU WILL NEVER EVER EVER IN A BILLION YEARS LEGISLATE MORALITY. We have laws against murder--people still commit murder. We have laws against child molestation (as reprehensible is that is). Yet, children every day suffer with abuse. Same for people being idiots with their animals whether it's neglect or overbreeding. It's gonna happen. Period, even with a whole slew of newly enacted laws. <Channeling County now> The majority of people of descent horse owners....Good luck infringing on the rights of those people to save a few.

Now, the argument, horses are livestock and therefore should be raised for food, slaughtered and prepared as food is a totally separate issue. I have yet to see one argument against why horses shouldn't be eaten that holds water. The only arguments that I have ever seen or heard deal with emotional ties to this particular species. <Again, County is coming to mind> The amount of horses slaughtered is very small for whatever reason....including being someone's dinner.

I admire people who save animals. Something decent and humane about their souls. It's their schtick. It's therapeutic. It's feeling good about doing a good deed. Again, great. There are others, like me, who feel that the big picture outweighs the smaller one. Think through legislation. Truly figure out if you are doing more harm than good with your "passion". Whether it be to stop the industrial aspect of producing horse meat or saving the starving, neglected horse who won't provide a descent steak and makes up a super tiny portion of the animals slaughtered every year.

My priorities lie with God, people and then animals in that order. So, when I am looking at an issue like slaughter I subconsciously think about people--jobs, food, underdeveloped countries, etc. The LAST thing I think about is a 28 yr. old horse that should live out the rest of his life in a nice pasture. I'm asking myself if that horse would be put to good use in his death for a person...whether it's financially, physically, etc. and whether or not the person who raised it was truly negligent or just an idiot or maybe just wants their horse to do one last service for mankind....

2hot4u · 06-09-2009, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mftx4

Yes, it makes you wonder what the folks that are dead set against slaughter are doing to help all of these abandoned and starving horses. I wonder if they have taken in several hundred or are sending thousands of dollars to help support the horses that are beyond help.

i wish I could help. but i am just a kid.. well a teen. I dont have space to take in horses, or money to send them. I wish i did. i wish i could put together a huge petition and get signatures to close slaughter houses in Canada. that was USA and Canada would be slaughter free. however( like my supposed horse-loving friend) most people would argue with the whole "we eat pigs.. cows.. chickens.. why not horses?" or " slaughter isnt cruelty or abuse!"" i know my "horse loving" friend says that all the time

spinandslide · 06-09-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2hot4u

i wish I could help. but i am just a kid.. well a teen. I dont have space to take in horses, or money to send them. I wish i did. i wish i could put together a huge petition and get signatures to close slaughter houses in Canada. that was USA and Canada would be slaughter free. however( like my supposed horse-loving friend) most people would argue with the whole "we eat pigs.. cows.. chickens.. why not horses?" or " slaughter isnt cruelty or abuse!"" i know my "horse loving" friend says that all the time

We are all entitled to our own opinions regarding slaughter, but it is INCREDIABLY "below the belt" to try and say that people who would like to see slaughter back up and running arent horse lovers..absolutely false to the highest degree.

theloneappy · 06-09-2009, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2hot4u

i wish I could help. but i am just a kid.. well a teen. I dont have space to take in horses, or money to send them. I wish i did. i wish i could put together a huge petition and get signatures to close slaughter houses in Canada. that was USA and Canada would be slaughter free. however( like my supposed horse-loving friend) most people would argue with the whole "we eat pigs.. cows.. chickens.. why not horses?" or " slaughter isnt cruelty or abuse!"" i know my "horse loving" friend says that all the time

Now that is just wrong. I am a horse lover myself and I take it that you wouldn't believe it would you? Just because someone is for slaughter doesn't mean that they can't like the animals that are going for slaughter.

We DO slaughter pigs, chickens, cows for food. Why can't horses be? Slaughter is ONLY cruelty/abuse if it is prolonged and done in an inhumane way.

Smartee Pants · 06-10-2009, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormyheart6160

Ummmm....let's see....I have been rescuing horses for nearly 20 years.....I currently have 20 head here now, that I take care of all by myself, and support, all by myself. Since I have NO significant other to help me. BTW, all 20 are fat, and healthy!!!

I have done 3 televised news interviews concerning the plight of horses to date. I was suppose to do one this spring, but that's been postponed until fall. I'm a FIRM believer in educating and keeping the public informed.

I have "held" confiscated animals that law enforcement officials took possession of for pending abuse/neglect court cases. I have testified on behalf of the condition of said animals.

I've probably "gave away" as much of my money to help others with their animals, as I spend on myself each month.

I have travelled fair distances to pick up animals in need. All at MY expense!

That's only a drop in the bucket. How am I doing so far?

I think it's great what you're doing and that you're so passionate about it but there are a lot more out there than you could ever think of taking in or helping. Keep in mind that most of us don't have the property or the means to take in so many or to do what you're doing. I donate - but the little bit that i'm able to donate doesn't help that much. If I had enough to make a difference - i'd have rescued more than the one I did!

Purpledomino · 06-10-2009, 09:02 AM

Every horse person needs to take responsibility for this if things are ever going to improve and horses are going to stop going to the kill pen. There is no difference in the situation with the overpopulation of dogs and cats, people keep breeding them regardless of the market, when there are literally millions awaiting an uncertain future (if any) in shelters. The only difference here, is that there is not a money driven business for dog and cat flesh that can validate slaughtering them with inhumane methods. Thank God.

I read these posts on this forum quite regularly, and it blows me away that there are still people breeding their mares, with no rhyme or reason in the market that we have now. There are both young and mature horses available in rescues and auctions everywhere, and as long as there is this overabundance saturating the market, there is no good enough reason IMO to produce more stock. Young and healthy horses which would seem to be the most adoptable are also the most vulnerable to going for slaughter, as meat horses are required to be healthy for human consumption. With too many horses and not enough owners to care for them I wonder how these people sleep at night because they are indirectly contributing to the problem whether they know it or not. Every new foal that hits the ground is taking a home away from a rescue plain and simple.

The slaughter of horses is not euthanasia in any way, shape or form. If you watch the killing of these animals you can see that they die in a terrified state, and the handling of them up until their demise is not humane. Being a lover of horses I cannot condone this treatment of them no matter what. I could not condone it for other companion species as well, as I feel that the trust that we have instilled in them is just too valuable.

Here in Canada where there are slaughter houses for horses still operational, it has NOT stopped neglect, overpopulation, and other atrocities from happening. Bad people do not necessarily take the horses to the auction or slaughter when they cannot care for them anymore. We have had huge seizures of neglected and starved horses happen within spitting distance of a slaughter plant. You cannot make someone feed and care for their animals or make the right decisions unless there are tough laws that enforce that.

What do I think if slaughter was ended in Canada now? Taking away this option as a way of disposal would not solve the problem of "unwanteds" entirely, but many of the irresponsible breeders, PMU's, and track people would be forced to make other decisions and regulate better. This is the largest peice of the pie contributing to the unwanteds. The thoroughbred people are already taking responsibilty in the US in some places for responsible re-homing of their horses when they are finished their racing careers. The industry will self regulate itself eventually...it has to.

It is my honest opinion that if and when the plants close here in Canada the only ones that will lose are the people overseas that have an appetite
for horseflesh, and the slaughter companies making the profits from it.

mftx4 · 06-10-2009, 09:27 AM

There were several breeds of horses in Europe that were developed just for meat. Is it cheaper to take our 'cast offs' then buying their own, specially bred horses. No one answer will ever satisfy this problem. Is it financially better for the big breeder to sell them at meat prices or to the public, where there's a big chance that they become bred too? What's the chance of someone thinking this youngster is their chance to get into the market of breeding? Instant 'backyard breeder'. I'm still trying to see both sides of this issue. I have 3 well bred mares. 2 have already been bred for several foals before I bought them. None of them will ever be bred while I own them. Foals are cute and very precious. Fun to look at and watch grow up into wonderful, useful animals. Then life changes, or people get tired of the care or can no longer afford it. Sometimes you can't even give them away. You can't go to someone's place and 'force' them to be resposiable. What then?

2hot4u · 06-10-2009, 10:09 AM

yeah and alot of horse slaughter is abuse! They dont feed or give them water when they are on the truck, they beat them to get them on it if they wont get on by themselves..... I consider it abuse. i understand that all of you love horses,b but i dont agree with the fact that horse lovers support horse abuse/cruelty that is otherwise named horse slaughter

spinandslide · 06-10-2009, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2hot4u

yeah and alot of horse slaughter is abuse! They dont feed or give them water when they are on the truck, they beat them to get them on it if they wont get on by themselves..... I consider it abuse. i understand that all of you love horses,b but i dont agree with the fact that horse lovers support horse abuse/cruelty that is otherwise named horse slaughter

Please

There is abuse in all sections of livestock slaughter..is it the norm? heck no! Are there ramifications? Heck yeah!

Ill say it again..if as much effort and thought had gone into the REFORM of horse slaughter as went into the BANNING ofhorse slaughter, everything would have been alright.

But the bottom line is, folks did not WANT reform, no matter how much they protest they did now..they wanted all slaughter of horses stopped..without putting an inkling the amount of effort into reform.

06-08-2009, 09:07 AM	#92
harp918 Senior Member+ Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Moving to GA! Posts: 1,022	This slaughter issue always seems to exist on a dual plane. First, you have the issue of people being boneheads and not being responsible, yada, yada, yada. All the suffering, starving horses, etc. Then you have the horses are food argument. I think they have to be dissected separately and looked at separately in order to gain any ground here or elsewhere. Because IMHO, one has absolutely nothing to do with the other. Let me start by saying something emphatically. YOU WILL NEVER EVER EVER IN A BILLION YEARS LEGISLATE MORALITY. We have laws against murder--people still commit murder. We have laws against child molestation (as reprehensible is that is). Yet, children every day suffer with abuse. Same for people being idiots with their animals whether it's neglect or overbreeding. It's gonna happen. Period, even with a whole slew of newly enacted laws. <Channeling County now> The majority of people of descent horse owners....Good luck infringing on the rights of those people to save a few. Now, the argument, horses are livestock and therefore should be raised for food, slaughtered and prepared as food is a totally separate issue. I have yet to see one argument against why horses shouldn't be eaten that holds water. The only arguments that I have ever seen or heard deal with emotional ties to this particular species. <Again, County is coming to mind> The amount of horses slaughtered is very small for whatever reason....including being someone's dinner. I admire people who save animals. Something decent and humane about their souls. It's their schtick. It's therapeutic. It's feeling good about doing a good deed. Again, great. There are others, like me, who feel that the big picture outweighs the smaller one. Think through legislation. Truly figure out if you are doing more harm than good with your "passion". Whether it be to stop the industrial aspect of producing horse meat or saving the starving, neglected horse who won't provide a descent steak and makes up a super tiny portion of the animals slaughtered every year. My priorities lie with God, people and then animals in that order. So, when I am looking at an issue like slaughter I subconsciously think about people--jobs, food, underdeveloped countries, etc. The LAST thing I think about is a 28 yr. old horse that should live out the rest of his life in a nice pasture. I'm asking myself if that horse would be put to good use in his death for a person...whether it's financially, physically, etc. and whether or not the person who raised it was truly negligent or just an idiot or maybe just wants their horse to do one last service for mankind.... __________________ "I've had people tell me this horse or that horse is a cutter then when I say " really I'll have to check the NCHA site to see how much they've won " the back pedaling starts." ~Glen Benson, aka "County"

06-10-2009, 09:02 AM	#97
Purpledomino Full Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 137	Every horse person needs to take responsibility for this if things are ever going to improve and horses are going to stop going to the kill pen. There is no difference in the situation with the overpopulation of dogs and cats, people keep breeding them regardless of the market, when there are literally millions awaiting an uncertain future (if any) in shelters. The only difference here, is that there is not a money driven business for dog and cat flesh that can validate slaughtering them with inhumane methods. Thank God. I read these posts on this forum quite regularly, and it blows me away that there are still people breeding their mares, with no rhyme or reason in the market that we have now. There are both young and mature horses available in rescues and auctions everywhere, and as long as there is this overabundance saturating the market, there is no good enough reason IMO to produce more stock. Young and healthy horses which would seem to be the most adoptable are also the most vulnerable to going for slaughter, as meat horses are required to be healthy for human consumption. With too many horses and not enough owners to care for them I wonder how these people sleep at night because they are indirectly contributing to the problem whether they know it or not. Every new foal that hits the ground is taking a home away from a rescue plain and simple. The slaughter of horses is not euthanasia in any way, shape or form. If you watch the killing of these animals you can see that they die in a terrified state, and the handling of them up until their demise is not humane. Being a lover of horses I cannot condone this treatment of them no matter what. I could not condone it for other companion species as well, as I feel that the trust that we have instilled in them is just too valuable. Here in Canada where there are slaughter houses for horses still operational, it has NOT stopped neglect, overpopulation, and other atrocities from happening. Bad people do not necessarily take the horses to the auction or slaughter when they cannot care for them anymore. We have had huge seizures of neglected and starved horses happen within spitting distance of a slaughter plant. You cannot make someone feed and care for their animals or make the right decisions unless there are tough laws that enforce that. What do I think if slaughter was ended in Canada now? Taking away this option as a way of disposal would not solve the problem of "unwanteds" entirely, but many of the irresponsible breeders, PMU's, and track people would be forced to make other decisions and regulate better. This is the largest peice of the pie contributing to the unwanteds. The thoroughbred people are already taking responsibilty in the US in some places for responsible re-homing of their horses when they are finished their racing careers. The industry will self regulate itself eventually...it has to. It is my honest opinion that if and when the plants close here in Canada the only ones that will lose are the people overseas that have an appetite for horseflesh, and the slaughter companies making the profits from it. __________________ Save our horses....say "WHOA" to horse slaughter. Last edited by Purpledomino; 06-10-2009 at 09:32 AM.

06-10-2009, 10:09 AM	#99
2hot4u Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Ontario Posts: 1,320 Images: 335	yeah and alot of horse slaughter is abuse! They dont feed or give them water when they are on the truck, they beat them to get them on it if they wont get on by themselves..... I consider it abuse. i understand that all of you love horses,b but i dont agree with the fact that horse lovers support horse abuse/cruelty that is otherwise named horse slaughter __________________ Don't Laugh at me, Don't Call me names,Don't Get your pleasure from my pain, In God's eyes we're all the same.. someday we will all have perfect wings, So don't laugh at me

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06-10-2009, 09:27 AM	#98
mftx4 Senior Member+ Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Cordova, Ill. Posts: 2,091 Images: 48	There were several breeds of horses in Europe that were developed just for meat. Is it cheaper to take our 'cast offs' then buying their own, specially bred horses. No one answer will ever satisfy this problem. Is it financially better for the big breeder to sell them at meat prices or to the public, where there's a big chance that they become bred too? What's the chance of someone thinking this youngster is their chance to get into the market of breeding? Instant 'backyard breeder'. I'm still trying to see both sides of this issue. I have 3 well bred mares. 2 have already been bred for several foals before I bought them. None of them will ever be bred while I own them. Foals are cute and very precious. Fun to look at and watch grow up into wonderful, useful animals. Then life changes, or people get tired of the care or can no longer afford it. Sometimes you can't even give them away. You can't go to someone's place and 'force' them to be resposiable. What then?