[OlympiaNative]

Ohhh people so lie under oath.

[OlympiaNative]

And as far as the fencing ect. It is hard to do upgrades on a place that ISN"T yours. If rusty fencing is what makes the AC take your property, then I guess there will be several people who need to worry. If horses getting loose occassionally is another reason, well I guess that is another reason mine should be gone ( the stallion my mare is turned out with is GREAT at breaking down gates) I guess if NOT taking the bailing twin off of horses is a reason for having them seized also ( cause lets face it 1000's of horses die each year from eating it) then mine would be gone yet again... but hey, I can't afford $100 bedding twice a month for them. IF a horse having to be stabled every night or day is yet another reason for them to be taken. Then I will have to load my mare myself and let them come and get her. She stays in pasture everyday, all day all night. She is happier in her pasture. She doesn't pace in the pasture, but hey why should I worry about her breaking her leg in the 3 foot trench she dug when she was in her stall, or about her staying so hot she wrung with sweat. I guess to, I should leave her stalled most of the time, so her old bowed tendons stay stiff and she stays lame. SINCE I have had her out in pasture she's not taken a lame step... so If that is what makes me a bad owner.. I guess I am guilty also. Yep, oh and I have not gotten around to worming her yet ( YIKES, I am a month behind) OHH and she hasn't seen the farrier in 12 weeks... HEAVENS!!!!!!!! will you find feed in the barn, well yea, but we take it out there the bag at the time... people like to steal it. Does she get hay? Well yea, there is a round bale in the pasture... but wait, eating it, not sleeping in it cause Yep, I left the twine on it. SIGHHH I am a terrible horse owner... Yes, I will admit, Jim and Matt didn't do everything right. But they have not done anything different then most of us. Oh and now the neighbours are complaining about the AC. Seems that when Matt was running the place, the horses were rotated pasture to pasture every few days, SOOO the grass never got grazed down or turned colors. SEEMS that the other pastures are nice and green and sturrip high and the pasture the horses are in is brown and over grazed.

Oh and could someone PLEASE tell me how Turn 3 is getting a fair deal when the AC were in court EVERY day to plead thier case and yet, Matt and Jim might get a day this week, a day 3 weeks from now so on and so fourth. Seems like there is a major screwing going on...... I'll send Matt and Jim the lube to try and make it better.... Better still, I will stand behind 2 men (WHO by the way I DO NOT know) and see they are getting the crappy end of a thick stick... If they need me, I will be there.

[mustangmari7]

I dont, but someone on here is quoting what the vets said in court so why not give out the link to that info. So all of us can make an informed decision and not have to listen to the "propaganda" form anyone.

There was something else that did not seem right,when I read this thread.
I can't recall who mentioned it but someone said lice is normal for a horse to have in Michigan. I have had lice on my property once in a lifetime of ownership. I went to the local TSC and purchased lice powder. I think it cost me $5.00. No excuse.

I have to agree with truthteller and ON (I think they mentioned this) this case will set a precident for the next few years. If horses are considered pets and not livestock, we are in for trouble, all of us. Livestock comes under Department of Agriculture Laws, Pets are under the Animal Controle.

I would like to know why the department of agriculture is not involved in this case. They usually are involved in the big cases, its very odd to me that they have not been mentioned. Was the Department of AG ever called? There are alot of missing parts, what a strange, sad situation.

[Top Dun]

1. if you are talking aobut this

ust saw this: there are TWO different vets saying approximately the same thing.

Dr. James Irving of Oakdale Large Animal Clinic
Quote:
The filly's body condition was about a 3 on a 9-point scale, with 9 being obese, Irving said.

"She looked like a horse that wintered outside in Michigan," he said.
Robert Sray, a veterinarian with Northwest Veterinary Clinic in Jackson,
Quote:
He said three were in poor condition, but two of them were more than 25 years old and all three were responsive and eating hay.

Sray also wrote that most of the horses in a herd of 40 were in good to fair condition, with no signs of illness and injury, and several mares were due to foal in the next few months.
__________________

The link WAS provided at
see select quotes
Pet-Abuse.Com - Animal Abuse Case Details: Horse neglect - 69 seized - Grass Lake Township, MI (US)

[OlympiaNative]

When you go to that link. They are talking about Elvis ( who was the yearling put down.) I posted his pictures. I also know of people who are now riding horses who had the same fracture he had. It took time and dedication, but they do not have to be put to sleep.

The horse that was mentioned that was dead, was dead. I want to say it colicked but don't hold me to that. It hadn't been dead long and it was not in the middle of the drive. It was in a trailer.

I worked at a hunter jumper barn when I was younger. We had a horse who was healthy when we put them up, die that night. When we got to work, we were told to jerk her into the back alley and not hit her with the tractor. She stayed there for 2 weeks ( until the owners dog chewed off a hoof and took it up to the house) They NEVER told the owner that she died, Poor girl showed up to get her out to ride and I had to tell her. Not a nice job for a stable hand to have to do. So was this neglect?

[Blistering Winds]

Why is the Department of Ag not involved?

Depends on the area. AC still takes care of many places and that includes horses. Especially if they are within city limits.

In the county my horses are in, the "Sheriff" is AC and the one that deals with large animals (livestock) as well.

Department of Ag doesn't have a rep in EVERY area. They "delegate" the responsibility to local authorities.

So that could be why they are not involved. They have "passed the buck" to AC and the locals to handle it.

Department of Ag usually gets involved during things that affect the food supply. Like major outbreaks that can devistate the area.

THEN they jump in and kick everyone else out and take over.

I'm not saying that IS the reason, but that is more likely than not....the reason you are not seeing the State Department of Ag at this moment.....

[Blistering Winds]

Michigan Duty to Enforce Provision

Michigan Animal control agency, establishment; county animal control ordinances



on that particular site, I'm not seeing any labeling to separate dog from livestock in their cruelty wordings.

Meaning, ALL ANIMALS of any kind are protected as the way I'm reading it.

Michigan Intention Infliction of Pain and Suffering Provision


Here is Texas older law (that was just edited recently).

Read this one and compare it to the one directly above. You will see what I am talking about.

Texas Criminal Cruelty to Animals


In texas, we have "Domestic", "Wild Animal" and "Livestock" separated. They actually list Cattle, sheep, horses...etc.....as not being pertained to in some parts of the law as written before this past year.

[truthteller]

The Dept of Ag was there. I have seen the reports. One of the Dept of Ag vet's report states recommendations of the owners "developing a management plan with a private practicioner to address issues..." Does that sound like seizure???? AC was PO'd that Dept of Ag didn't say exactly what they wanted them to as well. This is of course RUMOR coming off the farm when it first started.

They have also testified. One of the Ag vets testified 58 of 69 horses in ideal or better body condition.

The transcripts and reports cannot be released yet because it is still at trial. Believe me they will be released as soon as a verdict is in, good or bad.

[truthteller]

From another board: True statements about what happened in court

Just wanted to update. Dr. Williams from MSU (pathologist on Elvis) testified today. He testified that the colt had zygogem depletion in his pancreas. This is caused from lack of nutrition. He testified this indicates malnourishment from 1 week to a few. It was almost a month when he saw him!
Brad from the Rescue group testified as well. He testified that he saw nothing on the farm indicating abuse. He testified that NO HORSE looked starved, even the skinny ones. He was shocked that he was there.
He testified that they had NEVER refused an animal in a rescue until now because it always seemed justified. NOTHING he saw justified this. He testified that it did NOT appear to be abandonment based on the sheer dollar amount of tack, trailers and equipment, plus the fact that over 90% of the herd were in great shape.
In his professional opinion, Matt and Jim should not lose any horses and it is unjust that they are doing this.
He testified to AC flooding the barn and putting horses in flooded areas. He testified that AC seemed angry and annoyed that they wanted to feed and water the horses because at 5 pm on 3/21/07 no one had food or water. He testified that 1 round bale was put out for 60 horses and the rest were left up front where the horses couldn't get to.
He did testify that Matt was a slob LOL... he said the front of the barn looked like a Payless Shoe Store (****ed puppies ) But nothing he saw, even the worst shape horses appeared to be abuse or neglect.
So that's the skinny on what happened today.
Because the prosecutor drug her feet and continually asked him the same questions over and over again, Matt did not get to testify yet.
It is now held over until 7/16/07 for the LAST day of testimony. Keep praying

[OlympiaNative]

Hey, I was about to post that.

SOOO there it is. Elvis was neglected BUT not by Matt and Jim.