[Appy-Girl]

Let me start with her background: I got Autumn last August (2008) when I purchased her she was 3.5 years old. She had some riding time less than a month total between 2.5 years old and 3. When I rode her for the first time to "try her out" she knew walk, trot, lope (rough), and whoa. I have since learned that someone's logic of a "broke" horse was on that within 30 days knew walk, trot, lope, whoa and back (rough). No head set. Doesn't know what to do with her nose, etc.

When I got her the beginning of August last year both my husband and I were working so not only did I purchase this horse but did barter work to aquire saddle/tack, and I was doing two half hour lessons on her for about 10 weeks. Things seemed to be going well in the sense of riding her with the occassional attitude but nothing serious.

As of today: This is where we are at - without a german martingale or a tie down she has no understanding of setting her head - I do work with her in just a bridle and according to a trainer - hold the inside rein firm and slight tug on the outside to ask for her nose - she will do this but doesn't respond well - she had no ground driving to date - I don't know how - she will lunge but NOW will do this bucking and rearing thing - sometimes it will be when I ask for a trot, or ask for a lope - other times she will buck rear and take off at a bolt, she does better now asking her to back up - but tonight they were in with the rain and cold. I tacked her up - I lunged her for 20 minutes - I got on and began riding - things were going ok until I asked for the trot and the lope - buck rear, etc. After about 30 minutes of this to the point she kicked out and smacked the wood rails of the indoor - I got off lunged her at a canter/lope for another 15 minutes to see if that helped - she did the same thing - and then I got on her again - she was fine at the walk, trot - again buck rear at the lope - and then for no reason she would just buck or I think it is called cow kick. She has a new saddle - one that has been check and fitted - we even changed different pads to ensure that one wasn't too big - too long - too short, etc. When she bucks/rears - I have used the leg cue to move her forward she will go and still trys to buck, rear, kick out while moving - I tried a crop - I tried a sharp NO when she does it - nothing. I am at the point of complete frustration - She doesn't know her right and left, she is acting up - nothing in her enviornment has changed - I have tried a straight snaffle, a twisted snaffle - both a small and medium size twist, and even a hack w/chin strap.............. I almost feel like that all this time - I have just been following instructions of too many people and lessons - that seemed to want to build on something that this horse just doesn't have - she wants to learn - she tries but it is almost like teaching a kindergardner 5th grade work..........

Help! I am out of work - can't afford lessons or a trainer and I am so sad and frustrated! what do I do? I don't own a lot of tack either.

HELP HELP HELP!!!!!!

[SaddleUp158]

After making sure all pain issues are gone, I would go back to the basics and work her from the ground up. Once her ground work is solid, then get back on her and do the exact same stuff you were working on from the ground.

[allison finch]

First of all, what discipline do you ride? It would help to know what style of riding you are wanting to perfect.

[Alliekk]

Sounds more like a pain issue than anything else. Not every person who claims to be a saddle fitter is actually as knowledgeable as they seem. It may, indeed be saddle fit or chiropractor issues. The fact that you say she is sweet and eager to learn, yet blows up when you go faster tells me her back hurts. When you move faster the rider tends to bounce more, which is exactly what I'm picturing in my head. Could you take some pictures of your saddle girthed up without a pad? Take a picture of the front from a 45° angle to the side so we can see the way the saddle traces her shoulder on both sides, a picture head on looking between her ears and straight at the gullet/wither, and then get on and take the same pictures with weight, still leaving out the pad. If you ride english we'll want to see pictures of the back end, standing directly behind her and looking towards the back of the saddle, with and without a rider.

[shenanigans]

I would agree with Saddleup here, if pain is not the issue & has been ruled out. Start ground work back at square 1, possibly her balance is an issue.
If she isn't doing a good walk to trot transition she isn't going to do a trot to canter transition either, not correctly anyway.

Does she know her leads? Is she better to lunge on one side then the other?
If she can't or won't learn a natural head carriage then she won't be able to engage her hindend correctly either so she will always be heavy on her forehand & unbalanced both physically & mentally.

I hope that helps some, hard to help when you don't have a good picture in your head.
Can you get a video of her while being ridden?

[caity and billy]

how long hav u had the saddle for....just because its been fitted, it still hasnt been worn in and might still feel a bit solid and hard on his back if that makes sence.

Billy was similar, when i got his new saddle and when i first bought him home...been much better sence..we are still working on the lope but its a much comfy-er saddle.

I dunno what season it is there but a changing of seasons may start making him act up a bit.

do ground work with his saddle on and make sure he isnt being a snob about it. lol

good luck

[Appy-Girl]

Hi,

I ride Western Pleasure / and eventually will do endurance rides with her.

[Appy-Girl]

Originally Posted by Alliekk

Sounds more like a pain issue than anything else. Not every person who claims to be a saddle fitter is actually as knowledgeable as they seem. It may, indeed be saddle fit or chiropractor issues. The fact that you say she is sweet and eager to learn, yet blows up when you go faster tells me her back hurts. When you move faster the rider tends to bounce more, which is exactly what I'm picturing in my head. Could you take some pictures of your saddle girthed up without a pad? Take a picture of the front from a 45° angle to the side so we can see the way the saddle traces her shoulder on both sides, a picture head on looking between her ears and straight at the gullet/wither, and then get on and take the same pictures with weight, still leaving out the pad. If you ride english we'll want to see pictures of the back end, standing directly behind her and looking towards the back of the saddle, with and without a rider.

I ride western - but today I will take pictures today when I go out to see her. The person I bought her from who gave me my first saddle - she had the same issues - I will definately take pictures and post them today.

Patty :0)

[Appy-Girl]

Originally Posted by shenanigans

I would agree with Saddleup here, if pain is not the issue & has been ruled out. Start ground work back at square 1, possibly her balance is an issue.
If she isn't doing a good walk to trot transition she isn't going to do a trot to canter transition either, not correctly anyway.

Does she know her leads? Is she better to lunge on one side then the other?
If she can't or won't learn a natural head carriage then she won't be able to engage her hindend correctly either so she will always be heavy on her forehand & unbalanced both physically & mentally.

I hope that helps some, hard to help when you don't have a good picture in your head.
Can you get a video of her while being ridden?

I don't believe there is a good balance for her - even when she lunges she holds her head up and pulls - however, she will do a walk to trot on the lunge line very well - on the lunge line she will now with or without her saddle buck and cow kick into the lope/canter. I will see what I can do for a video - the indoor doesn't have good lighting for my small camera video - however, I could lunge her a bit outside to video her - will do that today.

Thanks for all the help.......
Patty

[Appy-Girl]

Originally Posted by caity and billy

how long hav u had the saddle for....just because its been fitted, it still hasnt been worn in and might still feel a bit solid and hard on his back if that makes sence.

Billy was similar, when i got his new saddle and when i first bought him home...been much better sence..we are still working on the lope but its a much comfy-er saddle.

I dunno what season it is there but a changing of seasons may start making him act up a bit.

do ground work with his saddle on and make sure he isnt being a snob about it. lol

good luck

The saddle is only a couple weeks old - so yes it is not broken in. I have changed her saddle pad as well - I went from a 16" square western heavy saddle to a 14" barrel saddle which fits my tush better - but the gullet, and the tree are the same as what she had previous also about 10 lbs. lighter. It is now fall her in Western MA - cold rainy, chilly and then seems some snow flurries around.

Patty