2 horsey questions need HELP!!

d_dancer721 · 06-24-2008, 06:35 PM

Hello, I am riding a horse at my job and we found out he's some kind of pacing horse, like a Standardbred or something (he trots like the horses that race with the carts attached to them) uhm yea I forgot what its called, anyway. First problem is getting him to CANTER he doesnt like to canter, he likes to just trot faster and faster, way way beyond posting ability. When turned out he canters when he plays and if you push him enough or he's excited to go back to the barn he will canter, however I dont want it to always be that way. Is there a way to retrain him to canter?
Second question, same horse (his name is Cody by the way) he's an avid fan of rolling while people are on him or not, doesnt matter to him. I can get him to go but I dont want to be constantly worrying he's going to try to go down and roll all the time. Is there any way to train that horrible vice out of him?
He's a good horse but most of his life he's been a trail horse at a place that doesnt really train their dealership horses (they get them from a dealer and know nothing about them before they get to the barn) Im hoping if I ride him on my days off (at the moment thats 3/week) I can slowly turn him into an even better horse.
If you have any advice or comments please post below and let me know.

Christy

Sheza_Angel · 06-24-2008, 08:23 PM

If he is an off-tracker then I can see why this would make sense. You said he might be a Standardbred, correct? It is my understanding that the gaited horses have several different gaits and that they have a racking gait - is it like a really fast trot? I am not exactly sure as I am not a gaited breed owner or expert by any means. I went to the Standardbred races where they pull the sulkies in NY where my Mom grew up, and have ridden a Saddlebred that did what you are describing. It really concerns me that you say he is rolling with people on him. How scary! That is definitely something that needs to be worked on. I bet you feel the same! O.O

Xiphias · 06-24-2008, 08:54 PM

He is pacing or trotting faster and faster, because that is what he was trained to do...he needs to be retrained, and I am not sure just what you need to do to retrain them to canter on command....he does indeed sound like a standardbred....maybe there is some people on here that have worked with off track standardbreds, try putting that in your title, to grab their attention...

As for him rolling...if you can tell when he's about to roll, pull his head up hard, and give him a swift kick to get him moving, and praise him...he has probably figurerd out that it's a good way to get out of work...and has gotten away with it....should not take him too long to figure out that laying down with a rider is acceptable....use a crop is necessary, but get his head up, and make him move out....good luck..

Cathy

Nuu · 06-24-2008, 09:05 PM

Well, I have no experience with Standardbreds, but I will ask -- does he know how to lunge?
and can he canter while lunging, or does he simply trot?

loosie · 06-24-2008, 09:43 PM

I don't think standardbreds are necessarily a 'gaited' breed, but they are trained to 'pace' which is trot with both feet on one side forward at once, rather than diagonally such as a normal trot. I don't know if it comes naturally to some, but they are taught this with the use of the 'hobbles' which are more like breeching. They are definitely trained not to canter. They've had a lifetime of being discouraged from cantering. I used to work at a trail riding co where they had quite a few pacers. I found it almost impossible if I tried to rise to it like a normal trot, but once I got into the swing(literally!) of it, swaying my hips from side to side, I found pacers really comfortable.

If you can occasionally get him to canter, with or without you aboard, you need to find a way to positively reinforce(reward) this, with treats or such, and make sure you don't inadvertently punish it when attempting to correct something else. The more you get to reinforce it, the more likely he is to do it again, the more you have to work with. So take & reward whatever you get to start with - even only 2 steps of a canter - and get to where you can get this on cue before asking for more.

Re rolling, the first thought that occurred to me was that you could teach this horse to lie down so easily - you already have the behaviour, you just have to positively reinforce it and them give it a lable(cue).

I don't generally agree with punishment during training *as a rule*. This is one of those rule breaking instances, IMO. I would try to pay attention so I could catch it when it starts, before he actually goes down, and kick him in the ribs or smack him with a crop whenever he tries it. (get your feet out of the stirrups to be ready to jump off if necessary tho!) If you're consistent and good with your timing, it won't take long for him to give it up. But for this reason, I wouldn't let other less experienced people ride him until he's thoroughly 'reprogrammed' because if he gets away with it with anyone else, he may just learn that it's not OK to roll when YOU are aboard.

Brittany1990 · 06-24-2008, 10:59 PM

Have you tried using a riding bat or a crop with him?

gluey33 · 06-25-2008, 12:15 AM

Boy are you gonna have fun fixin this

For the canter this is going to take time and patience. It may be easier on a large circle. When he starts to trot faster you need to actually bring him back to a slower gate and then ask again. By letting him go faster at the trot he will think this is what you want. Make sure you frame him up, getting him bent to the inside of the circle, sit on your outside butt cheek putting your outside leg on firmly just behind the girth and make sure his nose is in the circle(peferably with a slight up tilt) and not pointing out. This way you are giving very definate cues and he will know you are asking for something different. Its important to slow him as soon as he goes to race off. and if you get a few strides STOP AND PRAISE. As he gets a bit better at picking up when asked go a bit further. Hes probably not very balanced with a rider at this gate and it will take him a few goes to do it well. Anyway have a go and be patient, it will be harder to teach him than an ignorant young horse because its actuslly been trained out of him

As for the rolling what Loosie said makes sense

d_dancer721 · 06-25-2008, 06:39 PM

Hey guys thanks for all your advice. I know what to do about his rolling it's just taking longer than I hoped. The problem is that Im not the only one who rides him, he is still a trail horse so my job keeps putting innocent un-knowlegable(sp?) people on him. Starting in 2 weeks Im going to be riding him 3 times a week for a few hours each time. Hopefully he'll get better in a couple months.

baylover177 · 06-25-2008, 06:47 PM

How old is he? It may be hard to break him of it.
A trail horse that will do that? That IS scary! And to think I was
scared about falling when Dusty reared up on me the other day for the first time...now I am thinking about having a 1,000+ ton animal on top of me.....that makes me feel better that I wasn't in THAT situation.

PertyHolly · 06-25-2008, 07:18 PM

I second what gluey said and I think it would also help if you taught him voice commands on the lungeline. Once he picks up the canter on the line just by voice then add that with the rest of your under saddle cues to help clear up his confusion so he knows exactly what you want from him.

06-24-2008, 06:35 PM	#1
d_dancer721 Full Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Brooklyn NY Posts: 80 Images: 14	2 horsey questions need HELP!! Hello, I am riding a horse at my job and we found out he's some kind of pacing horse, like a Standardbred or something (he trots like the horses that race with the carts attached to them) uhm yea I forgot what its called, anyway. First problem is getting him to CANTER he doesnt like to canter, he likes to just trot faster and faster, way way beyond posting ability. When turned out he canters when he plays and if you push him enough or he's excited to go back to the barn he will canter, however I dont want it to always be that way. Is there a way to retrain him to canter? Second question, same horse (his name is Cody by the way) he's an avid fan of rolling while people are on him or not, doesnt matter to him. I can get him to go but I dont want to be constantly worrying he's going to try to go down and roll all the time. Is there any way to train that horrible vice out of him? He's a good horse but most of his life he's been a trail horse at a place that doesnt really train their dealership horses (they get them from a dealer and know nothing about them before they get to the barn) Im hoping if I ride him on my days off (at the moment thats 3/week) I can slowly turn him into an even better horse. If you have any advice or comments please post below and let me know. Christy

06-24-2008, 08:23 PM	#2
Sheza_Angel Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Alpine, TX [Sul Ross State University] Posts: 978 Images: 21 Blog Entries: 1	If he is an off-tracker then I can see why this would make sense. You said he might be a Standardbred, correct? It is my understanding that the gaited horses have several different gaits and that they have a racking gait - is it like a really fast trot? I am not exactly sure as I am not a gaited breed owner or expert by any means. I went to the Standardbred races where they pull the sulkies in NY where my Mom grew up, and have ridden a Saddlebred that did what you are describing. It really concerns me that you say he is rolling with people on him. How scary! That is definitely something that needs to be worked on. I bet you feel the same! O.O __________________ *PRO-SLAUGHTER* if done right! Sheza Angel - my grade QH mare *College Student that is ADDICTED to HGS!*

06-24-2008, 08:54 PM	#3
Xiphias Senior Member+ Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Maryland, horse country USA Posts: 16,335 Images: 627 Blog Entries: 29	He is pacing or trotting faster and faster, because that is what he was trained to do...he needs to be retrained, and I am not sure just what you need to do to retrain them to canter on command....he does indeed sound like a standardbred....maybe there is some people on here that have worked with off track standardbreds, try putting that in your title, to grab their attention... As for him rolling...if you can tell when he's about to roll, pull his head up hard, and give him a swift kick to get him moving, and praise him...he has probably figurerd out that it's a good way to get out of work...and has gotten away with it....should not take him too long to figure out that laying down with a rider is acceptable....use a crop is necessary, but get his head up, and make him move out....good luck.. Cathy __________________ Member COL Club- hand over the Oil of Olay and nobody gets hurt! http://www.freewebs.com/xiphias21034/ I was on HGS the day we made 2 million posts

06-25-2008, 06:47 PM	#9
baylover177 Full Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: In the field. Posts: 70 Images: 2	How old is he? It may be hard to break him of it. A trail horse that will do that? That IS scary! And to think I was scared about falling when Dusty reared up on me the other day for the first time...now I am thinking about having a 1,000+ ton animal on top of me.....that makes me feel better that I wasn't in THAT situation. __________________ There is no secret so close as that between a rider and his horse Robert Smith Surtees

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06-24-2008, 09:05 PM	#4
Nuu Full Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 173 Images: 21	Well, I have no experience with Standardbreds, but I will ask -- does he know how to lunge? and can he canter while lunging, or does he simply trot?

06-24-2008, 09:43 PM	#5
loosie Senior Member+ Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 615	I don't think standardbreds are necessarily a 'gaited' breed, but they are trained to 'pace' which is trot with both feet on one side forward at once, rather than diagonally such as a normal trot. I don't know if it comes naturally to some, but they are taught this with the use of the 'hobbles' which are more like breeching. They are definitely trained not to canter. They've had a lifetime of being discouraged from cantering. I used to work at a trail riding co where they had quite a few pacers. I found it almost impossible if I tried to rise to it like a normal trot, but once I got into the swing(literally!) of it, swaying my hips from side to side, I found pacers really comfortable. If you can occasionally get him to canter, with or without you aboard, you need to find a way to positively reinforce(reward) this, with treats or such, and make sure you don't inadvertently punish it when attempting to correct something else. The more you get to reinforce it, the more likely he is to do it again, the more you have to work with. So take & reward whatever you get to start with - even only 2 steps of a canter - and get to where you can get this on cue before asking for more. Re rolling, the first thought that occurred to me was that you could teach this horse to lie down so easily - you already have the behaviour, you just have to positively reinforce it and them give it a lable(cue). I don't generally agree with punishment during training as a rule. This is one of those rule breaking instances, IMO. I would try to pay attention so I could catch it when it starts, before he actually goes down, and kick him in the ribs or smack him with a crop whenever he tries it. (get your feet out of the stirrups to be ready to jump off if necessary tho!) If you're consistent and good with your timing, it won't take long for him to give it up. But for this reason, I wouldn't let other less experienced people ride him until he's thoroughly 'reprogrammed' because if he gets away with it with anyone else, he may just learn that it's not OK to roll when YOU are aboard.

06-24-2008, 10:59 PM	#6
Brittany1990 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Sedalia, Mo Posts: 390 Images: 9	Have you tried using a riding bat or a crop with him?

06-25-2008, 12:15 AM	#7
gluey33 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 433 Images: 6	Boy are you gonna have fun fixin this For the canter this is going to take time and patience. It may be easier on a large circle. When he starts to trot faster you need to actually bring him back to a slower gate and then ask again. By letting him go faster at the trot he will think this is what you want. Make sure you frame him up, getting him bent to the inside of the circle, sit on your outside butt cheek putting your outside leg on firmly just behind the girth and make sure his nose is in the circle(peferably with a slight up tilt) and not pointing out. This way you are giving very definate cues and he will know you are asking for something different. Its important to slow him as soon as he goes to race off. and if you get a few strides STOP AND PRAISE. As he gets a bit better at picking up when asked go a bit further. Hes probably not very balanced with a rider at this gate and it will take him a few goes to do it well. Anyway have a go and be patient, it will be harder to teach him than an ignorant young horse because its actuslly been trained out of him As for the rolling what Loosie said makes sense

06-25-2008, 06:39 PM	#8
d_dancer721 Full Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Brooklyn NY Posts: 80 Images: 14	Hey guys thanks for all your advice. I know what to do about his rolling it's just taking longer than I hoped. The problem is that Im not the only one who rides him, he is still a trail horse so my job keeps putting innocent un-knowlegable(sp?) people on him. Starting in 2 weeks Im going to be riding him 3 times a week for a few hours each time. Hopefully he'll get better in a couple months.

06-25-2008, 07:18 PM	#10
PertyHolly Full Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 44 Images: 21	I second what gluey said and I think it would also help if you taught him voice commands on the lungeline. Once he picks up the canter on the line just by voice then add that with the rest of your under saddle cues to help clear up his confusion so he knows exactly what you want from him.