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Author
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Topic: The Real Join up? Please Help?
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HorseCrazy80
Member
Member # 1111
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posted May 13, 2004 08:18 PM
At the stable I work at, there is a new thoroughbred named “duke”. He is a x-race horse, then he was at a hunter farm, and I am the only one who can really care for him, other then the owner, he just needs time to “trust” you, and I want to work with him he is a great horse. So I want to get a good relationship going. So I figure to try the “Join-Up”. I was wondering if you could put it into a easy step-by-step directions. I would like a good chunk so I can do it successfully but it needs to be easy to understand. I have been reading other forms but they are to short or not enough info. I would like to know how to perform it, then about how long it will take on average (estimate), what signs to looking for, about how many times would I need to perform this, and anything that is important? I know that is a lot, so I thank you all for helping me and Duke out. Remember I will print it out and use your post for reference, thanks so much again!
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"There is no better feeling in the world then having your animal surrender it's trust into your hands."
Sara
Posts: 191 | From: Massachusetts | Registered: Dec 2003
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MissBandit
Member
Member # 1377
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posted May 13, 2004 10:19 PM
I posted exact step by step instructions on how to do just this a while back.
Here you go:
"Join up is based on body language. You can send your horse off, as well as bring him in to you with nothing more than eye contact and body position. During the entire process you want to totally refrain from giving your horse ANY vocal commands. All you need is a round pen and a long soft rope.
To send your horse off, you want to make hard and fast eye contact with him. Keep your body facing directly to him. Raise your arms high, palms out. This aggressive body stance says move on out. You want to get the horse up into a good brisk, working trot. If he doesn't immediately respond, use the rope to flick at his back end to drive him off. Do not hit him with it, only flick it in the direction of his rear end. If he ignores this, you can take a sharp step in toward him. Only a step or two, DON'T chase him.
You will be able to change your horses pace by changing your aggressive eye contact and aggressive body stance by lowering your eyes to his shoulder area, and turning your inside shoulder back, so that you are not facing him hard, but have softened you body and are angled slightly to his back end. Keep you hands low and non-threatening.
Keep him moving at a brisk, working trot. Do not let him slow his pace until he ASKS you. He will lick his lips and make chewing motions with his mouth. This is him telling you he will not challenge you, he wants back in. Allow him to come down into a walk by the method mentioned above. (lowering eyes...) Go back and forth a few times from trot to walk. Make sure he moves when you tell him to, if he doesn't immediately slow to a walk, turn hard and face him straight on (using eye contact, body stance and arms) and get him working a nice hard trot again for a few rounds. Then try again.
Let him know he can stop by lowering your gaze to his hind end and turning your shoulders away from him. When he stops, turn him around and work the opposite side the exact same way. Be sure he moves when you want him to and ONLY slows his pace when you allow him to.
Once you have him responding like this on both sides, you can allow him to stop. Turn your back on him and wait for him to approach you. He needs to approach you on his own free will. If he does not, turn toward him sharply and send him off for another round of work.
When join-up is correctly executed, once he has asked to come to you (with the licking, chewing and lowered head) and you have allowed him to stop working, your horse will walk quietly to your shoulder. At this point, continue to refrain from speaking to him, and do not look at him. Quietly walk off and your horse will follow you. Do a few turns, see how he stays at your side. When he's done a good job of it, give him lots of love. This is just the begining of a beautiful new level of trust, understanding and respect that you and your horse now share."
This whole process should take approx. 30 minutes. Done correctly, you should only need to do this exercise in it's entirety once. You can brush up with the horse from time to time if you feel the need to.
[ May 13, 2004, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: MissBandit ]
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You know you are a horse person when...
...You pull change from your pocket , and hay falls out.
...you yell at the kids, and the horse's name pops out.
...you actually get to a point where flies don't bother you so much.
Posts: 2292 | From: BC, Canada | Registered: Jan 2004
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Idrivetrotters
Member
Member # 1490
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posted May 14, 2004 12:21 PM
First make sure you have the owners permission to do this. I would not allow someone else to work with my horse unless I was there and since I think the joining up is a waste of time.
Thoroughbreds and especially racehorses are used to having lots of one on one time spent with their caretakers. Most tbs enjoy quiet non evasive things like massages, grazing, treats, and one of my tbs just liked me sitting in a chair next to his stall to get pets and just be able to relax. I think you should ask for persmission first before you do anything to this horse and start with massages and long walks will do more to bond with this horse than chasing him around in a round pen.
Posts: 479 | From: Florida | Registered: Jan 2004
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MissBandit
Member
Member # 1377
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posted May 14, 2004 01:53 PM
Oh most deffinitely ask for permission first. Totally agree on that. But it is not a waste of time at all. I used joinup on a TB mare off the track who was totally unsafe for the new owners. Joinup totally changed her perspective on things - suppose you'd have to see it to believe it. But why would I lie? ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posts: 2292 | From: BC, Canada | Registered: Jan 2004
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HorseCrazy80
Member
Member # 1111
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posted May 14, 2004 10:06 PM
Of course I have asked for permission, I would just start to work on another persons horse! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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"There is no better feeling in the world then having your animal surrender it's trust into your hands."
Sara
Posts: 191 | From: Massachusetts | Registered: Dec 2003
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Idrivetrotters
Member
Member # 1490
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posted May 15, 2004 08:47 PM
I've seen the "join up" and I think it would work on a certain temperment but I have great success with the techniques I use and since I have no access to a round pen and paddocks here usually have a horse in them. I have a horse that a certified round pen guru nearly got stomped into oblivion when he tried chasing her around the round pen, so I don't think it works on all horses in all situations.
I just made sure that the owner has a headsup on what you have planned, it was not meant to insult.
Posts: 479 | From: Florida | Registered: Jan 2004
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emsNkeeper
Member
Member # 1866
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posted May 17, 2004 11:13 AM
I don't beleive in alot of the natural horsemanship stuff... but join-up really worked for Gracie (an off the track beaten mare). She went from kicking psycho to a loving horse. Now Keeper just doesn't seem to get the point of it... he just goes around and decides to do his own thing, he's more like some of Idrivetrotters horses... he likes one on one time, especially just hanging out at his stall door.
Posts: 78 | Registered: Mar 2004
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gingersnaps2002
Member
Member # 480
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posted May 17, 2004 11:29 AM
I think join up would NOT work for a horse who was aggressive towards people,then it would be dangerous to the person.
The way I do it is use a smallish pen,doesnt have to be a round pen.I turn the horse loose,throw a rope toward him or a whip and get him running.If the horse wants to trot or canter,I let him pick the pace.You can take more than a couple steps,but you want to stay at the center of the horse's attention.Signs to look for are licking the lips,head dropping,the inside ear tipped towards you,the horse may start slowing and turning in towards you.
While you are running the horse,make him switch directions every now and then. To stop the horse,turn your shoulder away,take off eye contact and walk in front of the horse,at an angle,then turn and walk back across. If the horse moves away or does not follow or even take a step in your direction,get after him again.This might take a couple tries until the horse follows you.
Posts: 387 | From: arkansas | Registered: Jul 2003
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MissBandit
Member
Member # 1377
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posted May 17, 2004 01:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by gingersnaps2002:
[QB]I think join up would NOT work for a horse who was aggressive towards people,then it would be dangerous to the person.
QB]
Never say never gingersnaps! I have personally used joinup suscessfully on horses that demonstrated aggressive tendancies to handlers. Joinup can have amazing results for a WIDE range of personalities. Of course I'm not saying that an inexperienced horse handler should attempt first time join up on an aggressive stallion (for example). It only makes sense that the person attempting joinup on an aggressive horse have the proper skills and experience in handling an aggressive horse in the first place.
Just for another prime example. I walked Midnight Felicity though the process with her Alpha mare. This mare would charge her in the pasture and challenge her at feeding time. Joinup was a success and they are now happily on their way. I never have said that joinup is a cure-all for every training issue or will gentle every single horse, but it deffinitely has proven to be a very valuable training tool for me personally time and time again.
--------------------
You know you are a horse person when...
...You pull change from your pocket , and hay falls out.
...you yell at the kids, and the horse's name pops out.
...you actually get to a point where flies don't bother you so much.
Posts: 2292 | From: BC, Canada | Registered: Jan 2004
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USMCMom
Junior Member
Member # 2502
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posted May 17, 2004 06:10 PM
Gingersnaps...you said,
"Signs to look for are licking the lips,head dropping,the inside ear tipped towards you,the horse may start slowing and turning in towards you."
What do those signs mean when doing the join-up? Especially the lip licking?
Posts: 10 | From: Kentucky | Registered: May 2004
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