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Author
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Topic: Dressage
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Twitch
Member
Member # 1616
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posted May 03, 2004 04:11 PM
I want to know everything about dressage. Does anyone have any sites i could use?? I have looked it up and its not that helpful.
P.S. DO NOT GO TO MSN BECAUSE IT WILL GIVE YOU A VIRUS IT'S CALLED THE SASSER. BEWARE!!!!!
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Animals in Memory
Georgie Porgie- You always made me feel better when I was sad.
Fritz- I might not have paid so much attention to you after we got George but I love you and George got jealous.
Kodi Bear- My fluffy little keshound, I love you with all my heart.
Posts: 313 | From: Missouri | Registered: Feb 2004
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slc
Member
Member # 1713
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posted May 08, 2004 06:48 AM
that should be a lot of fun for you. dressage is not a lot like other kinds of riding. it's kind of a whole new world to learn about. i always find that to be a lot of fun, i'm always learning something new.
alot of the things that are really important in other riding styles aren't in dressage, and the rider does sit different. he has to have the weight pushed down in his heels, for example, but once he starts using longer stirrups, his heel probably won't be pushed down so low looking. he's going to sit with his upper body straight up and down and keep his hands just above the saddle. not too low and not too high. his legs will be against the horse's sides, not held away from the horse, but not squeezing or holding on tight.
and he has to really be able to sit a trot, even if the horse is really clocking along.
you aren't judged on what diagonal you post on, either, but you do have to pick up the lead it says to in the test. with dressage tests doing things 'at the letter' (the riding area is marked with letters) is really important, and having really straight lines and good, round circles is important.
i think the major thing people have a hard time getting used to is the horse is supposed to take a contact with the bit. he should stretch the rein, or always keep the slack out of the rein. we use a mild bit so he can take a contact, and instead of him 'dropping the bit', that is, instead of working the reins so he puts his head down or in and we can't feel of his mouth, we want kind of a springy, flexible feel of his mouth with him always taking ahold and stretching forward to get the bit. almost like a fishing line in a current being pulled a bit all the time.
to do that, we have to kind of 'wind the spring', meaning we keep pushing him out to the bit, so he reaches forward with his neck rather than curling it up.
that means leg aids. especially with an untrained horse we might really be using our leg signals alot to keep always urging the horse on and to encourage him to keep reaching for the bit and reaching his legs forward and swinging his back.
it's sort of like an ice skater who has to keep pushing on the skates to keep moving and generate energy for all those fancy jumps and moves.
in any case a dressage trainer can show you how to get the right amount of each signal and to teach your horse. but at first, you might be surprised that you are, while doing the dressage, alot more active a rider than with other riding styles.
there are a lot of nice web sites, but web sites don't always have the best information. alot of time, beginners put information up and they may not really understand the dressage so well.
usef.org is the united states equestrian federation and they have the dressage showing rules there.
usdf.org is the united states dressage federation and they have some information about their programs like their awards, instructor certification and things like that. it's good to know about instructor certification if you want to try and find someone to teach you.
while it can be a good idea, your teacher doesn't have to be certified. alot of the old timers haven't gotten their certificates, but they already know alot and can teach alot. they just don't bother to get the certificate.
of course it's possible a teacher could have been around for a long time and still not be very good, that happens sometimes. seeing who does well at horse shows and how their horse goes and how well they ride, helps to decide which instructor is the most helpful in your area.
it's a good idea to go to dressage shows, just remember that the people at horse shows are also learning, and though they are doing their best, it might not be perfect. you can also see some dressage done at combined training events, eventing, etc. even carriage driving shows often have the carriage horses do a kind of dressage test while pulling the carriage.
it's good to see though, as you can see how people learn as they go. shows are such a good way to improve one's riding that you should see riders of all abilities at a show, from timid beginners to seasoned pro's. you can compare beginners and intermediate dressage riders to the local professional trainers at most shows, and see what sort of things you can expect to be working on.
for example, a pro might sit really still, even when sitting the trot on a big, fast moving horse. but you won't see a beginner doing that. that wouldn't be expected. so it gives you kind of a perspective.
books and videos can be pretty helpful. some are just fun to watch, such as the ones of the top show horses in the world. the top competitions are mostly in europe and it is fun to watch those people and horses.
some videos show training, but that is pretty hard as the training depends alot on what the horse already knows and how the rider rides, and you couldn't, say, just follow along and do what it has on a video and be guaranteed that it would work out for you. even so, i like to watch those and see what different trainers do, it should be pretty much the same overall, but just adjusted for horse and rider stage of training, strength, etc.
bengt lindquist's book ''the practical dressage manual'' is probably about the best thing going. he was a very good writer and he knew how to say things clearly.
every single sentence in it can be read and thought about and unlike a lot of other books it isn't written in a way that is hard to understand. alot of dressage books are written to sound really complicated and it's hard to get much of anything out of them, LOL.
i think the best way is to just get started. a local dressage instructor can get you started. you don't need a special horse to get started.
i think the best thing about dressage is that you can do it really seriously, or do it just for fun now and again. whatever you like.
Posts: 297 | From: ohio | Registered: Feb 2004
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Twitch
Member
Member # 1616
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posted May 08, 2004 08:57 PM
My boss (kindof, i volunteer at a horse barn where i keep spirit) Has a third level dressage horse. He can canter in place and all that. But he was neglected before we got him so he's skinny. He is a trekhaner. Does it matter the breed that you use? Because i have a poa and she is short and im not planning on getting a new horse for a looooong time. Thanks for all that info though but i am off subject... she used to to all sorts of events hunter undere saddle, jumping competitions, western dressage and i am going to start working for lessons on my horse again.
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Animals in Memory
Georgie Porgie- You always made me feel better when I was sad.
Fritz- I might not have paid so much attention to you after we got George but I love you and George got jealous.
Kodi Bear- My fluffy little keshound, I love you with all my heart.
Posts: 313 | From: Missouri | Registered: Feb 2004
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Moonshine Zeus
Member
Member # 1660
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posted May 08, 2004 11:31 PM
Hey well it doesnt matter to much on da breed although some make better dressage horses then others. im sure your pony will be ok and rememba that you dont just get dressage it takes alot of practise and is one of the most difficult thing of equestrian because you have to connect with your horse
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PROUD OWNER OF MOONSHINE ZEUS 14.2 22 YR OLD PONY WHO DOES EVERYHING.
*jUMPING IS DRESSAGE WITH A COUPLE OF JUMPS IMBEETWEEN*
Posts: 175 | From: Auckland, New Zealand | Registered: Feb 2004
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slc
Member
Member # 1713
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posted May 09, 2004 04:44 AM
My boss (kindof, i volunteer at a horse barn where i keep spirit) Has a third level dressage horse. He can canter in place and all that.
--that isn't a move they ask for in dressage tests, but sometimes at circuses you will see a horse canter on the spot, backwards or on 3 legs.
--however, there is a thing in dressage tests that looks as if the horse is cantering on the spot while he is turning. unlike a western pivot he has to keep going with his feet, just on the spot. he looks like he is marching in place, lol. it looks neat. at first the horse makes a very small circle with his hind feet, when it is perfect one hind foot goes up and down almost on the spot, and the other hind foot makes a tiny circle around that one.
--there is another thing too, that is kind of a trot almost on the spot. they don't ask for any of those trot things at third level, but they do have to make a smallish turn like the one described above.
--but sometimes the rider will be working on those things, kind of teaching the horse to do little bit of that trot in place, at third level. i think the neatest thing about third level is that the horse starts doing flying lead changes. not like in the hunters, it is a bit different, and fun to watch.
But he was neglected before we got him so he's skinny.
--sometimes if a horse isn't fed well for a long time they just never really get real fat after that. if a horse is thin, the owner will have a vet look at his teeth, grain and hay, and test the horse for worms, to see if there is a reason for him being thin.
He is a trekhaner.
--trakehners are nice horses! for a long time i was at a farm that raised trakehner horses. it was really fun. the stallions were HUGE and very kind and friendly. i used to ride one of the younger stallions. he was beautiful golden red color.
--trakehner horses have a wonderful history as during world war 2 alot of them were rescued by general george patton who also rescued the lipizanner horses. let me see if i can remember the story. he couldn't go all the entire way to get them, but he passed the word along that everyone needed to get the horses over near to him so he could get them all and take them to a safe place. people were tired and hungry after the war, and no one thought they would even care about the horses. but they led and herded a huge bunch of horses over to where he could get them, then the soldiers took over and turned into cowboys for a day, LOL, all the horses got to safety and got new homes. i think there is a book called the Flight of the East Prussian Horses about it.
Does it matter the breed that you use?
--no. many of the top dressage horses in the world are warmbloods, because good ones are quite strong and pick up their feet really well. but no, there is no breed requirement. any horse can do dressage.
Because i have a poa and she is short and im not planning on getting a new horse for a looooong time.
--no you don't have to get a different horse. you can ride any type of horse you want. poa's are usually quite good at it.
--you can use hunt seat tack but they don't let us show in pelhams, slow twists and some other bits at the shows. it has to be a smooth snaffle bit. we can't show in martingales, either. at least that is the american rules, i think you are in usa if you have a poa? (are we talking in abbreviations here?) if you have hunt seat style clothes already i'm sure they will be fine.
Thanks for all that info though but i am off subject... she used to to all sorts of events hunter undere saddle, jumping competitions, western dressage and i am going to start working for lessons on my horse again.
--it is really great to hear of someone getting so interested in dressage and having fun with it. i think you will do really well.
[ May 09, 2004, 04:52 AM: Message edited by: slc ]
Posts: 297 | From: ohio | Registered: Feb 2004
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Twitch
Member
Member # 1616
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posted May 10, 2004 01:49 PM
Thanks for all that info. Yes i live in the usa. And yeah i am talking in abreviations. Poa. pony of the america's.
I also think that the flying lead changes are awsome for instance in the movie the long shot with the blind horse... He did it all. That's when I started wanting to learn dressage because it looked like a lot of fun even though it is strict.
I don't know all the breeds that do really well in dressage but after all the reading i have been doing on poa's i thought i would kow. But i didnt read on how they do in different dicsiplines.
But thanks again for all the info and by the way you said that the young stallion that you rode was a golden red color so is this one. His name is Noble he is huge and 17.3 hands. He is about 17-20 years old and has bowed out legs in the front. Instead of being strait they are wierd but he is sweet.
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Animals in Memory
Georgie Porgie- You always made me feel better when I was sad.
Fritz- I might not have paid so much attention to you after we got George but I love you and George got jealous.
Kodi Bear- My fluffy little keshound, I love you with all my heart.
Posts: 313 | From: Missouri | Registered: Feb 2004
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Catapultcomformation
Member
Member # 827
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posted May 11, 2004 02:35 PM
slc you do have to know what diagonal you post on I had a judge tell me just this weekend that I was late on a diagonal(i forgot it until the last second) and that hurt my score!I only do intro level so far and cant tell you much about that either! but im sure all of the people have said good things!
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;)Anna ;)
jumping is like being set off in a catapult you dont know quite the extent of your stupidity until its over, and by that time your already in the ER
Posts: 570 | From: USA alabama | Registered: Oct 2003
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slc
Member
Member # 1713
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posted May 11, 2004 04:36 PM
Oh you are down south in missouri that is really horse country. and i think there used to be a huge trakehner breeder down there but i can't remember her name now.
Yup he was flame red, his father was Branibor, a steeplechaser from Poland. the polish people have great trakehner horses and other breeds as well.
when my friend went there to get some horses she saw huge fields with the horses sorted by color and 300 or 400 in each field, and in the morning there are gates in the town, and they open the gates up and the horses RUN through the streets in town out to the pastures and out through the various gates. it is a great sight to see 300-400 mares and foals run through the town!
they also played a trick on them, they took them on a carriage ride and pretended by accident they had crossed the border to russia, and the driver stood up and yelled, oh no! we're in russia! and had the 4 horses pulling the carriage gallop like mad all the way home.
Of course...uh...when I called the polish govt to get the regulations on buying a polish horse, they asked, ''are you going to eat him or ride him?''
and of course, my boyfriend said, ''you could say ride him, and if he turns out to be a bad horse, THEN eat him'' for which he got whopped on the head.
No, in regular dressage shows, the diagonal is not judged. If it is, it is a judge's error, and you report it to the TD (technical delegate).
Some other types of organizations that put on their own sort of dressage shows, such as 4h or pony club, may have their own rules that they want to follow. I can't comment about what their rules are, I am just talking about regular dressage shows.
In regular dressage shows, the diagonal is not judged, and if it is, you report it. It is a judge's error.
You can, however, get a comment from the judge for other posting problems. If the rider posts off the back of the saddle or can't keep the rhythm, it will show on the general section at the end of the test paper, and it can affect the score of the work it occurs in too.
The reason it is not judged is that the dressage rider uses 'the wrong diagonal' alot, because he or she can get the horse's inside hind leg working better by using 'the wrong diagonal'.
In fact, it is so important a way to get the strides even, that old horse dealers used to use it as a trick!
Yup, some old timer riders were so good at evening up the horse's steps that they could even conceal a lameness in a horse. Yes, believe it or not, I have seen people do it. Some of these guys were so good they would use it as a trick to hide a lame horse! They would just get over on the other diagonal, support the horse with the reins some and there you go.
LOL! But the right use of it is to train the horse and make both hind legs really strong and supple.
Alot of times when I am training the horse, I do different sorts of things with the diagonal. For example if I was riding a young horse, I might do what is called, ''Five and Dimes'' which is you sit five steps and post ten steps. It evens up his stepping with his hind legs, and gets his muscles in his back evened up, and it teaches him to carry the rider while the rider is sitting the trot, without him getting his back sore. There is another exercise we do on a circle where we get going in a good strong trot on a big circle and keep changing the diagonal, and keep posting. That is a really good exercise too. It evens up the horse's steps and it evens up the rider too! He will really make a good circle once he has that exercise down well.
We also do another one where we post while we are doing work like shoulder in, haunches in, renvers, leg yield and half pass. We change to the 'wrong diagonal' and post and do half pass in particular. It is very good for getting more activity in the horse's steps, they call 'refreshing' the trot.
Once I was watching a big time trainer riding on a horse at a clinic. It was really wonderful. It was a young horse and he was listening really well to the rider and he was learning to really use his hind legs and reach them forward. This kind of smarty pants type girl came up and said, ''you are on the wrong diagonal!'' and the trainer said, ''thanks!'' and kept posting on the 'wrong diagonal' and every one started giggling. the girl said, ''you are on the wrong diagonal!'' and the trainer and the audience started to giggle louder. pretty soon the whole place was giggling and the girl who had spoke up said, ''what's so funny?'' and a girl next to her said, ''there is no wrong diagonal''. of course she didn't believe any of it and finally stomped out. i know her and sometimes when she is riding i yell out ''you're on the wrong diagonal'' and she yells back ''SHUT UP!'' and starts laughing.
In the horse show, there aren't a lot of dressage tests that allow riders to post to the trot, just Intro and Training Level tests, but even so, even the great riders doing grand prix warm up with some posting trot work, at every ride, even if their whole test will be all sitting trot.
When we go across the diagonal, we are taught to not change the posting diagonal til we get to the far side ('the wall') or the track. That way, we can keep the horse's trot steady and looking very good and strong all the way across the diagonal, so the judge can see the horse's very best strides.
If we change in the middle of the ring there will be a little bobble in the stride, so we do it at the rail. This is not how I was taught in other riding styles but that is what we do and why in the dressage.
[ May 11, 2004, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: slc ]
Posts: 297 | From: ohio | Registered: Feb 2004
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Twitch
Member
Member # 1616
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posted May 11, 2004 04:56 PM
I am going to have to practice sitting Spirits trot. ANd by the way when i see people doing dressage i see them bringing there heals in and out in and out on the horses side. It doesnt effect them though they keep going the same pace are poeple supposed to do that with thier heals? That is confusing because with just normal english pleasure you have to keep quiet heals.
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Animals in Memory
Georgie Porgie- You always made me feel better when I was sad.
Fritz- I might not have paid so much attention to you after we got George but I love you and George got jealous.
Kodi Bear- My fluffy little keshound, I love you with all my heart.
Posts: 313 | From: Missouri | Registered: Feb 2004
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slc
Member
Member # 1713
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posted May 11, 2004 04:59 PM
Right. With an untrained horse, it is a long time before they have their ''cruise control'' and just go along taking really strong steps without that urging. Most horses are pretty happy to plop along without really using themselves, if the rider doesn't urge them. The urging gets them really swinging their hind legs and getting stronger.
And sometimes at a horse show, your horse will get what we call 'hard sided' and not listen very much to your signals. That is because there are a lot of mares at the horse show, LOL, they just feel really excited and aren't really listening very much.
And sometimes when asking the horse to really try his very hardest even the best rider will be tap-tap-tap it means go boy go. A really good horse, when you tap like that he will just say, i can do more, watch me. It is a good feeling to ask a horse to give more and feel him respond.
SOme of it is by type of horse too. Some horses need a constant urging even to do the easiest things, and that is usually the best sort of horse for a person to learn on.
It's not good for them to have a too-sensitive horse to learn on, in the book ''In One Arena'' alot of top riders give advice, and that's one thing they say.
With a horse that is very laid back, a rider can get a steady seat and hands, and not have to be afraid that his horse will run away. If he is afraid he can't learn to ride well. But that sort of horse does take a lot of urging along.
Of course, with some riders, it is just a habit and they aren't really aware of it or doing it for a purpose. That is just a part of learning to ride better, don't worry, they'll get it as they get better.
[ May 11, 2004, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: slc ]
Posts: 297 | From: ohio | Registered: Feb 2004
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Twitch
Member
Member # 1616
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posted May 11, 2004 05:32 PM
I trained my horse to jump but I think that i will have to learn about Dressage before i start training it to her because I like to know hwat is being done to my horse and i will not pay to send her to a trainer and have them do something to her. But... I think that training her dressage will be really hard. It will also be really hard to learn it myself. I am going to have to have my friend who is really into it help me with it. Which is better/easier to teach when a horse is young rather than older because which ever they will learn easy even if they are older then i will teach that secinfd. My horse just turned 5 a couple days ago so i think this is a good time to start teaching her things. If I wait to much longer it will get harder. But nevermind all that i have already started teaching her western so i will wait for dressage.
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Animals in Memory
Georgie Porgie- You always made me feel better when I was sad.
Fritz- I might not have paid so much attention to you after we got George but I love you and George got jealous.
Kodi Bear- My fluffy little keshound, I love you with all my heart.
Posts: 313 | From: Missouri | Registered: Feb 2004
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slc
Member
Member # 1713
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posted May 11, 2004 06:20 PM
Well alot of older horses can learn to do it later in life, but it is probably easier to teach a horse things when it is a little younger. You know, the difference between your grand mother learning to play baseball and you.
Some horses do learn to do both western and dressage. There are some big differences, but alot of times if it is at the lower levels a horse will do pretty well at both. A horse like that can be a real good one to learn on and have a lot of fun with.
Posts: 297 | From: ohio | Registered: Feb 2004
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