faq | Horse Forum Home

» Horse Forum   » Horse Health   » Worming and weight gain questions-pictures added (Page 1)

Author Topic: Worming and weight gain questions-pictures added SaddleHappy Member Member # 1838 posted May 14, 2004 10:50 AM         I am getting really concerned about Midnight's weight loss. The farrier told me that she's not really as skinny as I thought she was, but that she is a little underweight. But I think she's lost weight even since then. Sometimes she looks OK, and then she'll turn at a different angle and she looks terrible. I was reading through the skinny horse thread below and I have a couple of questions about it. Several times vegetable oil is mentioned... is that just regular old vegetable oil from the grocery store? Won't that make her food taste nasty? And if I start using it, do I have to increase the amount gradually the same way I would with a food, or should I just go ahead and start giving her a couple of cups a day? Also about worming... I don't know exactly what kind of worming schedule she was on, but I was thinking maybe she needs to be wormed. Should I just jump right in there and pick a schedule and start it? Or could it harm her in some way if I worm improperly? And then about hay... she is grazing all day long. Is it possible to overfeed hay? I had originally planned not to feed hay, since they do have plenty of grazing, and the other horses are all doing fine on just grass with one scoop of pellets per day. Actually I think Dante would probably do fine with nothing at all but grass, he just stays nice and plump. Since Midnight is not keeping up her weight though, here's what I was thinking: I will go back to two feedings per day of Strategy, and will add a cup of veggie oil to each feeding. I will also add a couple of flakes of hay in the middle of the day somewhere, just to make sure she's getting enough. And I'll pick some kind of worming schedule and get started with it. Is there anything else or does that sound OK? Is there something more fattening than Strategy that I should feed her instead? When I was at the feed store I asked them and it sounds like even the senior feeds don't have any more fat than the Strategy does. And should we stop riding or working her? That's really the only thing I can think of that would have made her lose weight since she got here is that she's no longer allowed to be such a pasture potato, she's actually out riding almost every day. [ May 16, 2004, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: SaddleHappy ] Posts: 559 | From: GA | Registered: Mar 2004 SaddleHappy Member Member # 1838 posted May 14, 2004 10:53 AM         I need to specify about my worming question.... I guess what I really want to know is if there is any way to tell if she has a particular kind of worm that's making her skinny and then I could worm for that one first? If I'm understanding properly how it works you rotate wormers to kill all the different kinds of worms... so I wouldn't want to start her out worming for a worm she doesn't have while another kind of worm lives in peace and safety making her skinnier all the while. Thanks. Posts: 559 | From: GA | Registered: Mar 2004 Blistering Winds Member Member # 843 posted May 14, 2004 04:24 PM         Most all of the worms horses can get can cause weight loss. So just get you some Ivermectin, either a "brand' name or a knock off. As long as it is Ivermectin, you'll be good to get started. Also if you could get one with a Botacide, would be best. Ivercare has a botacide and Ivermectin. So that will cover 90% of what you need to worry about. Next time you de-worm, in about 2-3 months, nab one that does tapes as well. I think Zimectrin Gold does Tapes and everything else. Just get started. As long as you know it is over 30 days since hte last time the horse could have POSSIBLY been dewormed, you'll be ok. As for the weight, can you see the ribs? If you can feel them but not see them, you'll be ok. Horses are natural grazers. So No, technically it is very hard to "overfeed" a horse grasses. But, a horse who doesn't get any exercise can get chubby off of it. Your call on the grazing issue if it is a good pasture, don't see why you can't cut back the hay consumption. If she's doing good. Just keep an eye on her. -------------------- Horses should not be treated as people. They should be respected for who they are and what they are capable of doing! Born Free Now Expensive Posts: 4337 | From: Texas | Registered: Oct 2003 SaddleHappy Member Member # 1838 posted May 14, 2004 08:10 PM         Definitely can see the ribs. Better from far off than close up, for some reason. It's hard to explain but from certain angles she just looks really emaciated and then you'll see her from another angle, or she'll shift her feet and you wonder what you were so worried about. Posts: 559 | From: GA | Registered: Mar 2004 MissBandit Member Member # 1377 posted May 14, 2004 08:14 PM         Can you post pics at all? I'd be interestd to see. How old is this mare? Is she the one you mentioned had a "swayback"? A horse with a swayback will have a more pronounced ribcage b/c it's dropped. -------------------- You know you are a horse person when... ...You pull change from your pocket , and hay falls out. ...you yell at the kids, and the horse's name pops out. ...you actually get to a point where flies don't bother you so much. Posts: 2292 | From: BC, Canada | Registered: Jan 2004 SaddleHappy Member Member # 1838 posted May 14, 2004 08:28 PM         She's 17. She's not the one that's swaybacked, that's Dante, but Midnight does have a... well not really a swayback, but sort of a dip. More pronounced when she's looking skinny. I have a digital camera and I can get pictures into my computer but I can't figure out how to get them anywhere else. I tried to email them to myself and then move them from there, but the computer started asking all kinds of questions about pop servers and ingoing and outgoing mail and I didn't know the answers. So no, I can't post pictures. Posts: 559 | From: GA | Registered: Mar 2004 belle4 Member Member # 864 posted May 15, 2004 02:16 AM         You have to go to www.picturetrail.com and become a member. It is free. You then go to member log in and then up load pictures. Once you up load the pictures and put the photos in "your album" you click more options. If this is all to confusing I will help more. Then you copy the url, go to this site click "image" at the bottom of the screne and paste. Posts: 1075 | From: michigan | Registered: Oct 2003 JC Junior Member Member # 2406 posted May 15, 2004 04:39 AM         Hello! I think that you need to call your vet, and schedule a physical/checkup. See what he/she says. But if you dont want to call the vet you can easily do everything on your own. Me and my mother have delt with numerous numbers of other people's horses that were underweight and we've put weight on them. Go to your local feed supply store and get a bucket of Focus Wt.. Its a weight supplement, it works WONDERS! You might have to start putting a little bit of sugar in his/her feed if he/she wont eat the feed when you put it on, but its ok. Also, you NEED to get on a worming schedule, yes! It might be easier to like, "set" a time for when you do it, like maybe the first or last day of the month. But your suppose to worm your horses every month. Also, just out of curiosity, why dont you grain your horses twice a day? Ive never known someone to not grain their horse(s), or just do it once a day. And on the hay issue. As long as you dont feed a rich hay, somthing like pure alfalfa, then no, it wont hurt. Especially if you feed just grass hay as I do. I hope Ive helped. If you would like to email me, my email addy' is jc_pincay88@yahoo.com -------------------- *HOME IS WHERE THE HORSE IS* -JC- Posts: 3 | Registered: May 2004 Blistering Winds Member Member # 843 posted May 15, 2004 08:46 AM         Since she is "geriatric" or Old, she needs to be on a senior diet. Get a bag of Equine Senior or an equivilent. Anything that is deemed "geriatric" horses. Some areas have the inexpensive version of it. Either way, the nutrients are quickly broken down and easier to digest. Which senior horses need. Also, have her teeth checked out. Older horses usually have teeth issues that cause eating problems. As for hay, I'd feed her at LEAST a flake of grass hay, morning and night, to ensure she is eating enough. That way if she isn't grazing as much as she should during the day, you are at least covering the basics on long stem forage. But, because she is older, she needs a much higher quality, softer hay, again, due to easily digestible. Definitly feed at LEAST twice a day of grain. Once a day isn't enough for 99% of the horses. It is harder on their body to eat once a day grain. Twice is ok, more the merrier. Definitly set a day and get on a deworming schedule. You can get daily dewormer, but you still have to paste deworm for Bots and Tapes. Anyways, good luck. If you got more questions, don't hesitate to ask. We all are full of info and lately, time on our hands. -------------------- Horses should not be treated as people. They should be respected for who they are and what they are capable of doing! Born Free Now Expensive Posts: 4337 | From: Texas | Registered: Oct 2003 SaddleHappy Member Member # 1838 posted May 15, 2004 10:36 AM         This isn't Midnight, it's Sparky, the horse we're considering leasing/buying. I just wanted to try this. Posts: 559 | From: GA | Registered: Mar 2004 SaddleHappy Member Member # 1838 posted May 15, 2004 10:42 AM         OH my GOSH I did it!!! Thanks Belle 4! That was really easy. I can post pics now!!! OK, now I'm headed to the feed store to pick up the wormer recommended above and then when I get back I'll try to get some digital pics of Midnight and post them! Hey, whaddaya mean, my horse is OLD??? I think that hurt my feelings! Nah seriously I didn't know that the senior feed was easier to digest, the person in the feed store just seemed to think fat content was the only thing of importance for weight gain. The hay I feed is Coastal Bermuda. Is that soft enough? The reason we are only feeding once a day is that the last person who delivered horses over here said that we have so much grass that one feeding a day would be plenty. The vet is coming out on May 24 if she's not looking better and probaly even if she is I'll just go ahead and get her looked at anyway. Also, I still need to get her a collar for her cribbing habit. How does cribbing make them lose weight? Just by making the stomach feel full? Because her problem is definitely not lack of appetite. Thanks everybody. Posts: 559 | From: GA | Registered: Mar 2004 MissBandit Member Member # 1377 posted May 15, 2004 11:12 AM         Congrats on posting your first pic! I like Sparky, he's quite a handsome fellow! Can you post us pics of the rest of your gang, and your pasture? Oh heck, go nuts! Barn, round pen... I want to see your set up! As for the above post, please do not put sugar in your horses feed. That will do nothing for weight gain, will only give a sugar high (as a mom, you know what that means) and aid in tooth decay. Bermuda grass is very soft, that's nice hay. As for cribbing causing weight loss. That is because they expend so much energy in the act of cribbing that it actually up burns up calories while at the same time keeping them so hooked on cribbing, they can 'forget' to eat. Also, it can wear their teeth down to the point that they are unable to graze properly, at that point they will need to live on hay, and lots of it. A vet check is a good idea, he can tell you what condition her teeth are in. [ May 15, 2004, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: MissBandit ] -------------------- You know you are a horse person when... ...You pull change from your pocket , and hay falls out. ...you yell at the kids, and the horse's name pops out. ...you actually get to a point where flies don't bother you so much. Posts: 2292 | From: BC, Canada | Registered: Jan 2004 Blistering Winds Member Member # 843 posted May 15, 2004 11:28 AM         Take what you are feeding every morning, and just split it in 2 feedings. Overall, better for their digestion system. Constant gut activity makes for less chances for colic. Sorry for calling your horse old. I know you didn't take too much offence from the comment after it, but there are people that refuse to face reality and do take offense. Don't understand. Old doesn't mean DEAD. My great grandfather is old, AND cancerous, but still is up and running around. Anyways, I'm rambling. I'm avoiding my children at this second. Watch the cuttings on the Coastal. Make sure that it is soft, and not cut too old. Older the hay was when it was cut, the harsher it is (with coastal.) If you get your horse on an easier to digest diet, fat will probably not be much of an issue. More nutrients able to be digested, the better off the horse is. But a higher fat diet can help put weight on. Just add it slowely to give the liver a chance to produce enough bile to break the fat down. If you add it too fast, all the grain will just run straight through the body. Fat should be added over a 6 week period. Anyways, Catch ya'll later. Gonna go watch some more racing. -------------------- Horses should not be treated as people. They should be respected for who they are and what they are capable of doing! Born Free Now Expensive Posts: 4337 | From: Texas | Registered: Oct 2003 SaddleHappy Member Member # 1838 posted May 15, 2004 02:31 PM         Add fat slowly? So for example how much veggie oil should I add the first time and how quickly should I work up to a cup per feeding? Just got back from the feed store. I really should think about just having my paycheck mailed directly to them, it would save us all some time. They smile really big when I come in the door. I found a paste called Equimax. It has the ivermectin, but it also treats for bots AND tapeworms. Does that sound good? Now I just have to figure out how much she weighs so I give her the correct amount. I also got some fly repellent to rub on her face. I was headed out to take some pictures but discovered that the camera batteries are dead... and I just bought them. So now it's back out to buy more batteries before I can post any more pics. Posts: 559 | From: GA | Registered: Mar 2004 SaddleHappy Member Member # 1838 posted May 15, 2004 02:34 PM         Hey about this wormer... do I just squirt it into her mouth or what? Does it taste good? I told my husband he would have to help me worm this horse and he looked at me rather askance. I said "what's the big deal... you can help!" and he said to me "if you're talking about doing something to that horse's rear end, I AIN'T doing it!" Hmmmm. I guess it's a good thing I didn't send him out to do it alone, or Midnight's dignity may have been seriously insulted! Posts: 559 | From: GA | Registered: Mar 2004 Blistering Winds Member Member # 843 posted May 15, 2004 03:01 PM         LMAO!!!! Dewormer up the rear..don't think it will do much there. Just shove it up the side of the cheek, and squirt it there. Sometimes it helps to have one person hold the horse, you hold the nose with one hand to keep it from tossing, the other to open the mouth and shove and squirt. Takes some serious talent NOT to get dirty. So I don't suggest doing this right before you plan on going out somewhere. THen hold his head UP to keep him from just dribbling it out, hold his mouth shut, and sometimes if you run your hand down from the throatlatch down directly under, where the esophagus is, you can stimulate swallowing. Most feed stores have weight tapes. Is she bigger or smaller than the horse that you posted a pic of? If bigger, do minimum 1000. Equimax is safe. YOu can double dose without much worry. I just don't suggest doing that on a first dose. But you can do 1000 now until you get a weight tape. The doseages are actually made for the oops of the hrose spitting it out. So don't be too concerned. Just if you do notice dead worms in the feces, then dose her again in about 4 weeks with the same de-wormer, Equimax. Especially if you suspect the worms are the reason for the weight loss. I'd start with a bit of top dressing of oil. Like a few tablespoons at first. Then just each week, add a bit more. That is what I would do personally. Especially on a horse already having issues. NOW, if you are feeding a fat-added diet, don't feed oil. If you feed too much, you can seriously hurt a horse. Older horses are more affected than younger ones since their systems start slowing down as they get older. Anyways, yeah, just start an allotment for your paycheck to go to you to pay bills, and send all the rest to an account especially for your horse. I recently got a credit card JUST FOR the horse. Needless to say, after buying Summer Hay, and feed, and fly stuff, I'm already maxed out (it was a small starting availability, but hey, it is a start!!) -------------------- Horses should not be treated as people. They should be respected for who they are and what they are capable of doing! Born Free Now Expensive Posts: 4337 | From: Texas | Registered: Oct 2003 Blistering Winds Member Member # 843 posted May 15, 2004 03:02 PM         Hey, out of curiosity, what is the chain for that is going from the bit up around the ears in that picture??? -------------------- Horses should not be treated as people. They should be respected for who they are and what they are capable of doing! Born Free Now Expensive Posts: 4337 | From: Texas | Registered: Oct 2003 SaddleHappy Member Member # 1838 posted May 15, 2004 03:06 PM         I think that chain is where the trainer gerry-rigged the whole setup so that the kids could actually ride with a bit while still being attached to a lunge line. It looked kind of strange to me but it seemed to get the job done. She was afraid to let them loose to ride through the pasture. Posts: 559 | From: GA | Registered: Mar 2004 MissBandit Member Member # 1377 posted May 15, 2004 03:59 PM         Bum De-Wormer! That's how we lunge with the bit as well. I must say though, time to invest in some proper footwear for your kids though. They need to be wearing proper riding boots with a heel. Not to freak you out, but it really doesn't take much for a running shoe to slip through the stirrup and then you have a seriously stuck kid, in a really bad situation. No one should ride in any sort of footwear that doesn't have a proper heel. Justing watchin' out for you. -------------------- You know you are a horse person when... ...You pull change from your pocket , and hay falls out. ...you yell at the kids, and the horse's name pops out. ...you actually get to a point where flies don't bother you so much. Posts: 2292 | From: BC, Canada | Registered: Jan 2004 Blistering Winds Member Member # 843 posted May 15, 2004 04:02 PM         Anytime I don't have my boots, I ride stirrup-less. Better to be safe than sorry. -------------------- Horses should not be treated as people. They should be respected for who they are and what they are capable of doing! Born Free Now Expensive Posts: 4337 | From: Texas | Registered: Oct 2003 Debra Junior Member Member # 2493 posted May 15, 2004 04:17 PM         FYI, the chain around that horse's head is for serious control. Also, the horse looks like he's got an thin mouth O-ring for a bit. I'd be happier if the owner felt comfortable using nothing but an eggbutt with no chain on a kid's horse. Regarding your horse's weight loss, at 17 she may have the beginning of Cushings. When time and money allow, be certain to have your vet do a complete bloodwork on the mare. Also, if she's so wormy that she's loosing weight, worm her immediately with an ivermectin/tapeworm product and wait a couple of days to see what happens. Older horses can drop dead from shock if you clear a heavy worm population from them all at once. There could be alot more going on here than you know. Talk to your vet. In the meantime, senior feed, good hay and grass should help her. Add each new ingredient one at a time and slowly. Allow 10 days to introduce a new feed. We put 250 pounds on a 21 year old through the winter, but we did it very carefully. He's charging all the youngsters now he's doing so well ! He's also on a nutrional supplement which includes probiotics. He thinks he's superhorse . There's alot you can do, but you need to get facts first. [ May 15, 2004, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: Debra ] Posts: 6 | From: Cleveland, Ohio | Registered: May 2004 ejforrest Member Member # 1414 posted May 15, 2004 04:32 PM         50% of a horses diet should be forage of some kind such as hay or pasture grass. 8% to 10 % of fat can be added to a horses daily diet. Like anything new to a horses diet, it should be done gradually. Beet pulp is great putting on weight. It is 20% fiber and fiber should make up at least 50% of a horses daily diet. Fiber is in hay and grass. Protein for an adult horse working light to moderate should be 8% to 10%. Protein is not an energy source but is for growing bones and tissue. Horses teeth should be check regularly for problems such as hooks or points which can interfer with weight gain. Deworming should be done 6 times a year-every other month. Here is a list of dewormers and which months to use them, this comes from an equine health magazine written by equine vets. Deworming for tapeworms is recommended to be done in late autumn or early winter to clean the horse out from grazing season or late winter or early spring to get the horse ready for grazing season. Recommended dewormers for tapeworm are: Quest Plus Zimecterin Gold EquiMax ComboCare Gel Jan/Feb Anthelcide EQ Paste or Panacur Paste or Safe-guard March/April Agri-Mectin Paste or ComboCare Past or Equell Paste or EquiMax Paste or Equimectrin Paste or Horse Health Ivermectin Paste or IverCare Paste or Quest Plus or Quest Gel or Rotation 1 or Zimecterin or Zimecterin Gold May/June Equi-Cide EQ Paste or Rotation 2 Paste or Strongid Paste July/Aug Anthelicide EQ Paste or Panacur Paste or Safe-Guard Sept/Oct Agri-Mectin Paste or ComboCare Paste or Equell Paste or EquiMax Paste or Equimectrin Paste or Horse Health Ivermectin Paste or IverCare Paste or Quest Gel or Quest Plus or Rotation 1 Paste or Zimecterin or Zimecterin Gold Nov/Dec Equi-Cide Paste or Rotation 2 Paste or Strongid Paste -------------------- ej Posts: 278 | From: michigan | Registered: Jan 2004 SaddleHappy Member Member # 1838 posted May 16, 2004 01:21 PM         OK, here are a few pictures of her. I know riding without boots is not a good idea, we just haven't been boot shopping for everyone yet. And I know some of you are going to blast me about the lack of a helmet... the truth is I just haven't decided where I stand on that issue yet, so I'm not making them wear one when riding around the property. But I am considering it. When I was growing up we didn't wear helmets for anything except motorcycle riding. Anyway, back to the actual topic here... Midnight's skinniness. The farrier explained to me that some of what I'm looking at is just because her back muscles have never been built up and that part of it is also her age. Like I explained before, from some angles she looks OK. I think it's partly how she stands sometimes, if that makes any sense. I've noticed that if she shifts all her weight to one hip, the problem seems more pronounced. Anyway, I've tried to include pictures that show what I'm talking about. Any ideas on building her back are also appreciated. Posts: 559 | From: GA | Registered: Mar 2004 MissBandit Member Member # 1377 posted May 16, 2004 01:38 PM         Oh yes, Midnight is swaybacked. (See how you can see where her rib cage is dropped?) I had that image in my mind before I even saw her. She isn't terribly underweight, but the swayback really prounces her hips and ribs. You've gotten great advice on what/how much to feed, and you haven't had her all that long. Also taking her age into consideration, she may harder to fatten up than a younger horse. She needs calories, and lots of hay/grass. You've got that sorted though. This is the mare that buck was really interested in right? She probably spent many years as a broodmare - judging by her sagging spine. So there may not be a whole lot that can be done about it at this stage of her life. I've deffinitely seen worse. She will be ok for light trail riding, which is really what you want of her anyway. [ May 16, 2004, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: MissBandit ] -------------------- You know you are a horse person when... ...You pull change from your pocket , and hay falls out. ...you yell at the kids, and the horse's name pops out. ...you actually get to a point where flies don't bother you so much. Posts: 2292 | From: BC, Canada | Registered: Jan 2004 SaddleHappy Member Member # 1838 posted May 16, 2004 01:40 PM         Yeah now that I think about it, I remember that the rescue said she had primarily been used as a broodmare. Posts: 559 | From: GA | Registered: Mar 2004

All times are Pacific

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2

Contact Us | HorseGroomingSupplies.com

Copyright © 2008 Horse Grooming Supplies