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Author
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Topic: EPM
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SaddleHappy
Member
Member # 1838
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posted May 12, 2004 03:52 PM
Would you buy a horse with a history of this? I think I got the initials right. It's some sort of parasite. The horse is doing fine now, fully cleared by the vet but I guess will possibly have outbreaks of this in the future. I'll try to check for responses later tonight if I can get my computer to log on long enough to read them. Thanks in advance.
Posts: 559 | From: GA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Blistering Winds
Member
Member # 843
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posted May 12, 2004 07:12 PM
Depends on what you want to do. If you don't mind paying high medical bills for relapses in the neurological area, and you want a great companion, go for it.
How much do they want? Personally, I wouldn't pay much of anything because as the horse gets older, the damage that is there can cause issues in the future.
How old is the horse now? How long since the last relapse?
What is it you want to do? HOw much are they asking for the horse? Are you willing to deal with a horse that in the future, may never be ridable again?
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Horses should not be treated as people. They should be respected for who they are and what they are capable of doing!
Born Free Now Expensive
Posts: 4337 | From: Texas | Registered: Oct 2003
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SaddleHappy
Member
Member # 1838
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posted May 12, 2004 07:46 PM
The horse is 13 years old. As far as the owner knows, he's only had one episode of this. She's been riding him again for several weeks and he looks to be in great condition and health. The vet gave him the all-clear.
She is selling him because stress could cause a relapse and she will never be able to show him at the level she wants. She can't afford to keep two horses. She wants us to lease him for about three months first, to make sure he is a good match for us and to make sure he gets a good home. We will bring him to our place and basically we will lease him for his board. They are asking $1000 for him, which we will pay if we decide to buy him at the end of the lease (or before if we're sure we want him).
Is EPM contagious, and is it possible that he would never relapse?
Posts: 559 | From: GA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Blistering Winds
Member
Member # 843
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posted May 12, 2004 08:03 PM
EPM is not contageous. Transmitted by Opossoms.
As for never relapsing. I have heard of horses after a great comeback, relapsing months and a few years down the line. But with the issue being new, not a lot of information is in on this.
IF she's riding the horse, and the vet has given him an OK....don't see why not if you are just looking for something for fun. But remember, a relapse can occur. So keep this in mind.
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Horses should not be treated as people. They should be respected for who they are and what they are capable of doing!
Born Free Now Expensive
Posts: 4337 | From: Texas | Registered: Oct 2003
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SaddleHappy
Member
Member # 1838
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posted May 12, 2004 08:12 PM
Just for pleasure... if we show it will just be 4H. Do you think it's too much money for a horse with EPM?
Also, I just did an internet search... the impression I'm getting is that it's pretty easy to treat with this new medication... does that sound right?
Posts: 559 | From: GA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Blistering Winds
Member
Member # 843
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posted May 12, 2004 08:16 PM
THe medication kills the parasite, but damage that is done is perminant.
BUT, a horse can basically "rewire" itself. The nerves and signals re-route themselves over time. But this re-wiring can backfire and those muscles and nerves that have taken up can wear down faster because they are doing double the work.
FOr what you want to do, if the horse is trained good, and currently ridable with a go from a vet, then Sure, I'd pay it.
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Horses should not be treated as people. They should be respected for who they are and what they are capable of doing!
Born Free Now Expensive
Posts: 4337 | From: Texas | Registered: Oct 2003
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Blistering Winds
Member
Member # 843
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posted May 12, 2004 08:17 PM
Especially since you get to lease the horse first. THAT is a great sign from a buyer's point. You can make your decision and see how well the horse works and if there are any problems before you actually slap that money down. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Good Luck
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Horses should not be treated as people. They should be respected for who they are and what they are capable of doing!
Born Free Now Expensive
Posts: 4337 | From: Texas | Registered: Oct 2003
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SaddleHappy
Member
Member # 1838
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posted May 12, 2004 08:24 PM
The owner rode him and all three kids rode him, although we led the girls instead of just letting them ride. He seems well trained... she showed him before this happened. He is trained a little differently than we are used to, so we may need some retraining. Thanks for all the info. I feel a lot better about it.
Posts: 559 | From: GA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Cool Time 84
Member
Member # 1036
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posted May 13, 2004 06:26 AM
EPM is contracted from Opposome Droppings, Goose Droppings and something else's droppings can't remember the last one.
As far as the danger in it, it really depends on what areas where effected before it was caught, a friend of mines 19 year old, it had effected his brain really bad and started bashing his head and going crazy because his brain swelled up... another of my friends caught her horses before it did much more than make him sweat like crazy from nerves.
It effects every horse different!
Stephanie
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Cool Time-April 5,1984
Romper's Rock N Roll-May 31,1991
Squire's Last Sugar Babe-August 24,2002
El-C's Misdemeanor-May 15,1987
Yolla Bolly-May 1998
*~*~*~*~*~*~**~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Delta,Twos,Shad,Ally,Striker,Smokey,Bud,Eclipse,Zippo,Gypsy,Chance,Rouge and Rosa We will miss you forever!
My dearest Jesse, We were together 11 years this winter, you were my special friend, I hated to see you go my dear, but I know it's best in the end. I will never forget you my faithful friend!
Jesse was laid to rest on: 03/18/04
***James C Reaggle III***
Born: Jan 21,1987
Died: March 24, 2004
Laid to Rest: March 27, 2004
R.I.P. RIGGS, I love and miss you, I will NEVER forget you. May you walk beside God in all his glory for all eternity! Love "Yes Ma'am Marine"
May all of you Rest In Peace!
Posts: 1522 | From: Ohio | Registered: Nov 2003
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QHGirl
Member
Member # 493
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posted May 13, 2004 06:51 AM
Saddlehappy!
Yes actually my mare has/had epm. They never actually "recover" they always have that damage in their system.... yes they can "rewire" but depends how extend the damage is. My mare got treated last July, it was a month long treatment of paste medicine that I had to give her 1 time a day. The damage my mare has is Muscle Atrophy. I have also had a vet check and she is clear and safe to ride. No damage affected her "balance and mind"... sometimes horses can never be ridden after that. If they caught it fast enough, that helps. My mare can be ridden, trail riding but she is lame, might not always be... she is not in pain. I am like that lady... she is not able to be shown as competitivly as I wanted her to be. The thing going for her is her bloodlines... she can reproduce and will NOT pass that on to her babies. It is NOT contagous as the horse does not "expel" the parasite because it can't follow through with the process like oppossums, racoons, cats, birds, etc... can. It embeds into their nervous system, spinal cord and starts the deterioration of the system.
Some horses can relapse... older drugs really caused this to happen frequently. The cost was $800 for the paste treatment and if she comes down with EPM again, I will have to pay that and possibly more... so keep that in mind that it is quite costly. ALSO one thing to think about, shots yearly, I have to be VERY careful and also wormer. Some wormers will onset them back into EPM because of the insecticides in them... ALSO shots... My vet and I decided not to give her her shots in the fall and spring because she could "react" to them. I gave her her tetinus and WNV and EPM vaccine this spring and maybe summer I might try the regular 4 or 5 way... just depends how she is doing. The normal shots weekend their immune system and could cause stress to the body which also may trigger the onset of EPM again.
My mare has been stressed a few times and didn't seem to onset her to EPM, I always worry about that. Sometimes trailering does that.... she hates the trailer and freaks out now since EPM issue... SO I try not to make her stressed too much.
My thought: Sounds like a good horse. Just know the issues you may run into with EPM. Read online info and be prepared.... I think it is great that the horse can be leased to see if that is what you want and if it can be ridden, that is a good sign. I know many show horses that have had EPM and are champions... BUT I know alot of people who had to put their horse down. $1000 for a good kid safe horse is not a bad deal if they never have a re-accurance of the EPM... you can't tell that for sure. I would say try the horse for 3 months... if he works out, it is safe to say that he prob will be fine for what you guys are going to do with him. IF you do decide... I would have the lady help you with riding him, he prob has more buttons that you know and might turn out to be a great horse.
KEEP ME UPDATED!! SORRY SO LONG!
Posts: 1350 | From: Indianapolis | Registered: Jul 2003
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Blistering Winds
Member
Member # 843
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posted May 13, 2004 07:06 AM
EPM Vaccine? They have one now?
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Horses should not be treated as people. They should be respected for who they are and what they are capable of doing!
Born Free Now Expensive
Posts: 4337 | From: Texas | Registered: Oct 2003
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Cool Time 84
Member
Member # 1036
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posted May 13, 2004 07:07 AM
I didn't know that either! WOW!
--------------------
Cool Time-April 5,1984
Romper's Rock N Roll-May 31,1991
Squire's Last Sugar Babe-August 24,2002
El-C's Misdemeanor-May 15,1987
Yolla Bolly-May 1998
*~*~*~*~*~*~**~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Delta,Twos,Shad,Ally,Striker,Smokey,Bud,Eclipse,Zippo,Gypsy,Chance,Rouge and Rosa We will miss you forever!
My dearest Jesse, We were together 11 years this winter, you were my special friend, I hated to see you go my dear, but I know it's best in the end. I will never forget you my faithful friend!
Jesse was laid to rest on: 03/18/04
***James C Reaggle III***
Born: Jan 21,1987
Died: March 24, 2004
Laid to Rest: March 27, 2004
R.I.P. RIGGS, I love and miss you, I will NEVER forget you. May you walk beside God in all his glory for all eternity! Love "Yes Ma'am Marine"
May all of you Rest In Peace!
Posts: 1522 | From: Ohio | Registered: Nov 2003
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QHGirl
Member
Member # 493
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posted May 13, 2004 07:27 AM
My mare gets it. I am not sure it if is for "normal" horses... the bad thing if they get the vaccine they have EPM... so doing a spine test will always test positive...
She had an epm vaccine right before treatment and then had one 6 weeks after the treatment and then one every year following.
SaddleHappy - This was the group I got alot of info from... this is good reading: Part one then it has link to Part two
Posts: 1350 | From: Indianapolis | Registered: Jul 2003
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morgan21
Member
Member # 1742
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posted May 13, 2004 07:46 AM
Yes they do have am epm vaccine, and any horse can get it if you want it. They didn't have it when my old tb had epm. QHgirl your horse seems to have a worse case tham mine did. My TB was caught early and we started the treatment right away he was on the past medicine twice daily for 2 months. it cost a total of $1,800. After his treatment I went on showing him and riding him 6 days a week. He continued to do well in the dressage ring and even do a little jumping, but his muschling was never the same in his hind end. In the 4 years after he had epm he never relapsed and never had any life threatening illnesses. He was vaccinated twice a year and wormed consistantly, never had an issue. My friends tb also had epm before she bought him. He is doin great jumping and learning dressage quite well, he has also had vaccines and wormings and seems to be doing great. I think it depends on the horse and you can't say for sure that the horse is going to relapse or not.
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Here is my horsey...
http://community.webshots.com/user/morgan21110
Posts: 226 | From: michigan | Registered: Feb 2004
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horse_crazy
Member
Member # 334
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posted May 13, 2004 02:54 PM
We have a gelding that was tested positive for EPM, and that was in 2002. He is being ridden every weekend, and he runs, ect. They has been no problem with him since then. I dont think that I would mind buying a horse with EPM history ,as long as their are no problems caused by it.
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Mares:
Honey-buckskin(in-foal to a smutty buckskin stallion)
BG-palomino/dunalino(foaled a beautiful filly)
Dibby-dun(in-foal to a palomino stallion)
Star Bucks-buttermilk buckskin(not bred, we may just use her as a riding horse)
Fillies:
Lizzy-grulla(will be used as a broodmare in the future, due to an injury as a weanling...we are unsure if she will be riding sound, although she might be, as her injury has healed so well...you can't even tell)
Sheba-black(hopefully will be shown in Halter classes starting this year)
Blue-blue roan(we aren't too sure what we are going to do with this filly yet....but she is a cutie)
Geldings:
Poco-sorrel/overo*Paint*(Awesome riding horse!)
Brandy-*FOR SALE*(Nice 2 yr old, going into training soon, price will go up, feel free to ask me about him..if you are interested)
Foals:
Tinker Bell- Red dun filly. Nice short neck, long legs, beautiful eyes..absolutely beautiful. Very people friendly.
Other 2 foals are expecting between May and June.
Posts: 853 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Jun 2003
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KSierra
Junior Member
Member # 2323
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posted May 13, 2004 04:11 PM
My moms TWH was diagnosed with EPM after he became lame and disoriented a few years ago. He would walk like he was dizzy all the time. We had the vet out and at first he thought he might have lymes disease and they ran blood tests and they came back positive for EPM. The doctor put him on a dose of twenty pills a day (ten in the morning and ten at night), I can't remember what they were called, and we had to keep him on them for ten months, that's when the symptoms went away as fast as they appeared. The vet told us that he could get over this in a day or never it just depends on the horse and the severity of it. After Bear recovered he never relapsed again.
Posts: 23 | From: Maryland, USA | Registered: Apr 2004
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QHGirl
Member
Member # 493
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posted May 14, 2004 06:55 AM
See you have many different peoples stories.. that is the good thing.
I am VERY paranoid... one little slight drag of her hind foot and I go seeing things... not sure if I am being OVER-Paranoid or just TOO cautious.... Just something I never want to miss again.
Hindsight is 20/20 and man let me tell you, I saw the signs... never in a million years put 2 and 2 together! The signs were not severe she was at the trainer for 5 months and he never saw anything (stress brings out EPM) you would have thought it would have happened there! She came back becasue she was TOO stressed... darn mare! (sorry just gets me so sick to my stomach to dump that much money into her for a pasture horse).
Posts: 1350 | From: Indianapolis | Registered: Jul 2003
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ToriQui
Member
Member # 2243
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posted May 14, 2004 06:09 PM
I think that from reading these posts that the seller is being cautious for not just you, but the horse as well and that is a good thing. If you can take a trial run, I would do it. I had a filly that I bought, perfectly healthy. My stable area is in the woods and we do have varnets and such. I never had any problems with her, broker, trained her and sold her when I go into high school. The new owners loved her, and she grew up to be a beautiful looking stocky bay. Then one day, her whole hind end gave out and she was dragging it around, the vet tested her positive for EPM. They couldn't afford the treatment. One treatment was $600.00 with no guarentees. This was of course back in 1994. It was ten years ago. They figured that the new life with multiple horses and being at the pecking order triggered her EPM. She may have contracted it at my place, but I never knew and she never showed symptoms. I was mortified when I found out and would never want to witness such a scary sight. I heard of a vaccine too, infact, I saw it in a magazine, but it is still relatively new and studies are still in process. I agree with others comments, a good horse can be hard to come by, especially for 1000.00. Try the trial thing, it may all work out and be worth every minute of your time with this horse. Good Luck!
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Tori Qui
Posts: 85 | From: Farwell, Michigan | Registered: Apr 2004
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SaddleHappy
Member
Member # 1838
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posted May 16, 2004 04:16 PM
Hey, I posted pics of him in the thread in General called the new horse we're considering. Also there is one of him in the weight gain and worming questions thread in this forum.
Posts: 559 | From: GA | Registered: Mar 2004
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