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Author
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Topic: 'Natural' Hoof trim
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Paintlover
Member
Member # 929
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posted May 06, 2004 08:00 AM
My neighbors want to trim my horse's hooves. They have been taking classes all over (not strasser) and trim their own horses'. They want to lower the heel and shorten the toe (this dosn't seem quite right). WHat do you guys think?
They say the horse will 'tell' you how they want the hoof trimmed. They are against shoes.
M.
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On the seventh day, god created horses. On the eigth, he painted them.
Posts: 312 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Nov 2003
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Dawn
Member
Member # 14
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posted May 06, 2004 09:52 AM
Personally, I wouldn't let them. Especially if they are just starting trimming. You want someone with experience particularly if they're doing something different. Can you show us a pic of your horse's hooves?
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Heard in the midst of a handwriting exam ~ "And to think, we could've been bio-chem majors."
Posts: 6885 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Nov 2002
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AQHA1972
Member
Member # 1881
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posted May 06, 2004 09:54 AM
I'm with Dawn. One wrong move or miss calculation could mean lame horse for you.
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Christa
Posts: 539 | From: East Texas | Registered: Mar 2004
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Super Step
Member
Member # 1637
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posted May 06, 2004 12:31 PM
I have read some about 'Natural Balance' in hoof trimming. Some was interesting, but not convincing reading.
The basis was taken from horses hoof conditions in the wild.
Basically it changes the break over point. My farrier called it a fad and said it is catching on in some circles because of the name 'Natural' being the latest buzz word with horses.
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I am the guy who changed his name to Super Step
Posts: 146 | From: Alabama | Registered: Feb 2004
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Super_Trooper
Member
Member # 1344
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posted May 06, 2004 12:48 PM
I agree that you want the heel "lower" but I would not be too quick to let them trim, get a professional to do your horses "barefoot" trims to get them use to it at least.
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True commitment begins when you reach the point of not knowing how you could possibly go on, and deciding to do it anyway!
Posts: 2411 | From: BC Canada | Registered: Jan 2004
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Toby&Arie
Member
Member # 969
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posted May 06, 2004 02:10 PM
Don't let them touch your horse's hooves! Any slight mistake and your horse could be severely laid up. As Candygirl's signature says- "no foot, no horse". It takes a long time and a lot of supervised experience which comes from working alongside a good farrier before someone should even think about messing around with a horse's hoof on their own. A few classes don't cut it. I've witnessed some real horror stories where people try to be their own farrier. Horses gone dead lame for months, unuseable. Once again, do not let them touch your horse... please. The risks are too great.
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"You know you are going really fast when you are galloping the same way as the wind is blowing, yet there is wind in your ears."
Posts: 381 | From: NYC | Registered: Nov 2003
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Blistering Winds
Member
Member # 843
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posted May 06, 2004 02:15 PM
Well, it depends on the horse's build on the heel low or high. Mine needs some heal, and I see others that need some taken off. Rarely do you ever have to take off heal.
Post a pic of your hooves from the side for us.
And NO, stick with farriers with lots and lots of practice. Not just a neighbor that wants to get their foot in the door. And for those that don't believe in shoes...some horses do need shoes. A good farrier knows when they do and when they don't.
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Horses should not be treated as people. They should be respected for who they are and what they are capable of doing!
Born Free Now Expensive
Posts: 4337 | From: Texas | Registered: Oct 2003
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Idrivetrotters
Member
Member # 1490
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posted May 06, 2004 04:13 PM
I agree, do not let them touch your horses feet!! I am always leery of anyone who says shoes aren't necessary. Shoes aren't always necessary and most horses don't have to have shoes, but a lot of horses need shoes and I always run away when I hear "natural" anything anymore ![[Smile]](smile.gif) !! Natural has become the new buzz word and it is getting abused and thrown around way too easy. It is very difficult to establish patterns with feet in the wild, wild horses are on varied terrain and usually moving about 40 miles a day. Plus any horse with any kind of injury, bad feet, etc is culled from the herd. It is almost impossible to trim a horses feet to fit the wild horse since how many wild horses do dressage, eventing, racing, barrels, etc ? We do unnatural things with horses and I can't see how we can expect a horse to have "wild" feet if they are not in the same environment as wild horses.
Posts: 479 | From: Florida | Registered: Jan 2004
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Blistering Winds
Member
Member # 843
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posted May 06, 2004 05:15 PM
quote:
It is almost impossible to trim a horses feet to fit the wild horse since how many wild horses do dressage, eventing, racing, barrels, etc ? We do unnatural things with horses and I can't see how we can expect a horse to have "wild" feet if they are not in the same environment as wild horses.
Good Point Trotters..... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Horses should not be treated as people. They should be respected for who they are and what they are capable of doing!
Born Free Now Expensive
Posts: 4337 | From: Texas | Registered: Oct 2003
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Super_Trooper
Member
Member # 1344
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posted May 07, 2004 10:31 AM
BUT...have you ever seen a wild, barefoot hoof? It is nice and WIDE and full. Even our horses hooves "expanded" after being barefoot for sometime. Now a days many shod horses become "contracted" leaving them with these little, tiny hooves. How is that better for jumping and what not? I would want my horses weight distributed over more of an area then a tiny, contracted hoof?
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True commitment begins when you reach the point of not knowing how you could possibly go on, and deciding to do it anyway!
Posts: 2411 | From: BC Canada | Registered: Jan 2004
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Blistering Winds
Member
Member # 843
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posted May 07, 2004 10:39 AM
I have no problem leaving them wide. Also, you won't find many with short heels either.
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Horses should not be treated as people. They should be respected for who they are and what they are capable of doing!
Born Free Now Expensive
Posts: 4337 | From: Texas | Registered: Oct 2003
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Idrivetrotters
Member
Member # 1490
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posted May 07, 2004 10:58 AM
None of my racing stocks feet are contracted. They all have nice wide feet and they are shod almost 10 months out of the year. The problem with using wild horses as a control group is that you can't control the herd any deviation what so ever ends up culled from the herd. Plus how many peoples farms/boarding facilities mimic the wild? Most boarding/farms are grassy soft footing with small fields or paddocks. I'm not against barefoot, I just caution people on using mustangs/feral horses as any kind of ideal. Mustangs are bred for one thing, survivial. We breed our horses for performance. We are looking for an animal that performs in an unnatural environment and selective breeding has given certain breeds problems with their feet. Most tbs can't go barefoot since their feet are shelly. My belief is if you want to go barefoot and it is the proper thing to do for your horse fine, but when it becomes a mantra to the point that shoes become instruments of evil, well, that is when I have a problem. Shoes are a tool, tools can be used for good or bad, or not used at all. If someone needs or wants to shoe a horse, I don't think anyone else should make them feel like they are monsters for doing what they believe is right for their horse.
Posts: 479 | From: Florida | Registered: Jan 2004
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Super_Trooper
Member
Member # 1344
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posted May 07, 2004 11:56 AM
I never once said that people were monsters to shoe their horses. Obviously we have domesticated the horse, keep them on soft pastures, blanket them, stall them and so on....it is not natural. I dont find pounding nails into my horses hooves 12 months of the year to be natural either.
I am not against anyone for what they do...people have been shoeing thier horses for years and years now....fine. Mine were shod up till a year and a half ago.
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True commitment begins when you reach the point of not knowing how you could possibly go on, and deciding to do it anyway!
Posts: 2411 | From: BC Canada | Registered: Jan 2004
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Super_Trooper
Member
Member # 1344
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posted May 07, 2004 11:57 AM
and....I personally perfer the heels to be lower....
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True commitment begins when you reach the point of not knowing how you could possibly go on, and deciding to do it anyway!
Posts: 2411 | From: BC Canada | Registered: Jan 2004
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Paintlover
Member
Member # 929
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posted May 07, 2004 12:16 PM
I am really worried about my horse's hooves because I took her on a long ride (some on the shoulder, some in the plowed fields) when I got done it looked like there were hairs on the bottom of her feet!!!! Plus a little of the lower wall (there is a bit of flair) chipped off. Her heels are run under too and her frogs are getting a little contracted. My farrier is coming out tomorrow. What do I do meanwhile? I know that those 'hairs' are not supposed to be there. ( if I rubbed them, some of them came off).
M ![[Bawling]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
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On the seventh day, god created horses. On the eigth, he painted them.
Posts: 312 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Nov 2003
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Carly
Member
Member # 2176
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posted May 07, 2004 01:10 PM
sounds like what happend to my mare a couple of months ago!...
she was flared in the back...and had little tiny whiskery hairs on her hoof...
iused some hoof balsam...it worked pretty well! the farrier was coming out the next week...just put that on twice a day until then!...it helps with the chips tto! is it just her fronts that are chipped/cracked/and hairy?...
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you gotta live, to love, and love to live.
Treat you like i treat my horse? YEAH RIGHT!!
I can muck 30 stalls b4 breakfast. what can YOU do?
I have a really big ass, but i married him anyways!
Driver carries no cash. all spent on horse
Treat me like a TB and ill never nag
who first squeezed cows utters, and decided to drink what coame out.
and who said "hey, you see that chicken over there? ill eat the next thing that comes out of its bu.tt"
"You don't think i got anything to teach you anymore? Thats fine with me. Just don't deny me the oppurtunity to watch you make an a.s.s of yourself"
-Sully (Skipp Suddith)Third Watch
"Sometimes i wonder what kind of world were leaving the kids. How the things we dont get involved in today, can come back. Maybe be their problem."
- Faith Yokus (Molly Price) Third Watch
Posts: 526 | From: Vancouver,BC,Canada | Registered: Apr 2004
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Carly
Member
Member # 2176
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posted May 07, 2004 01:15 PM
o and...i agrre..dont let them trim your horses feet! they are ammatures..they should learn and work a;ong side of a senoir farrier! like toby said!....
my Farrier is Dan Krimble...he is AWSOPME! real good with the horses, plus does such a great job!...you want someone who sees thousands of hooves a yr..and thats what they do...that is there life...your neighbors dont know what to do and have little tricks/advice for problems! as far as i know...they sound like they are wanting to practice/expiriment on your horse!...and you DO NOT WANT THAT!
like every1 said...you do not want a lame horse!...no doubt that they will make a mistake!...and imnot trying tobe ean...but if they dont wanna work at it and work alongside a senior farrier...let them make the mistakes on there own horses...untill they eventually learn, they have to learn more...if you want to let them...thats your choice, you asked for my thoughts...thats them! ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
good luck!
Carly
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you gotta live, to love, and love to live.
Treat you like i treat my horse? YEAH RIGHT!!
I can muck 30 stalls b4 breakfast. what can YOU do?
I have a really big ass, but i married him anyways!
Driver carries no cash. all spent on horse
Treat me like a TB and ill never nag
who first squeezed cows utters, and decided to drink what coame out.
and who said "hey, you see that chicken over there? ill eat the next thing that comes out of its bu.tt"
"You don't think i got anything to teach you anymore? Thats fine with me. Just don't deny me the oppurtunity to watch you make an a.s.s of yourself"
-Sully (Skipp Suddith)Third Watch
"Sometimes i wonder what kind of world were leaving the kids. How the things we dont get involved in today, can come back. Maybe be their problem."
- Faith Yokus (Molly Price) Third Watch
Posts: 526 | From: Vancouver,BC,Canada | Registered: Apr 2004
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Blistering Winds
Member
Member # 843
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posted May 07, 2004 01:53 PM
Paintlover. If your horse is that bad, then don't ride until the farrier has come out. Just leave well enough alone and she should make it for another week.
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Horses should not be treated as people. They should be respected for who they are and what they are capable of doing!
Born Free Now Expensive
Posts: 4337 | From: Texas | Registered: Oct 2003
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hoofit
Member
Member # 643
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posted May 09, 2004 07:34 PM
Make sure the heels are low enough so that the frog is getting maximum weight. If its not it is narrow and high and very rubbery. This means the hoof is not working correctly and hence shock absorption and circulation is greatly impeded. The frog should be wide and no higher than 1/2" and as tough as the sole on your boots. Unfortunately it usually cannot get like this with shoes keeping it off the ground.
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hoofit
Posts: 30 | Registered: Aug 2003
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OwnerofWillow
Member
Member # 2012
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posted May 10, 2004 12:48 AM
Well honestly I do not know anything about shoeing though I do know that if my aunts stud gets his feet cut any shorter than this he is sore for almost a week. I personally think that how the foot is trimmed should be what suits the horse.
Though I am sure most would think that these are to long in the back. (sorry only picture I have of his feet) I will be leaving on the 26th and will post more pics of everything when I get back
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Two Tru Willow (pending)
If you don't know how to spell a word use this link Spellcheck
Posts: 809 | From: AZ | Registered: Mar 2004
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CanadianWrangler
Member
Member # 1843
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posted May 10, 2004 09:40 AM
one thing to be careful of with trimming any horses hoof is to make sure that the natural size of the hoof is not attempted to be manipulated!!
A horse requires a certain amount of hoof wall and certain shape to be able to absorb the concussion of the hoof impacting the ground. Too little hoof left and you have a lame/sore horse.
One problem I see is people getting hooves trimmed on their horses is to try and make the "tea-cup" shape and size. This is not viable for most horses as that hoof shape alters the horses break over point, and contact position of the hoof with the ground.
I am a firm believer in a horse not needing shoes. Most horses can have corrective trimming rather than getting corrective shoes. Yes shoes have thier place and are necessary in alot of cases.
A hooves shape and size are a major contributor to dealing with your horses caonformation. With an 'improper' hoof minute conformational defects can be augmented/imbabalanced, and even become more severe. (Toeing in or out, etc, etc...)
Hoof trimming should be done according to the horses needs and NOT the owners desires.
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The More we teach our horses the more we Learn from our horses.
Posts: 119 | From: Saskatchewan | Registered: Mar 2004
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Idrivetrotters
Member
Member # 1490
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posted May 10, 2004 05:51 PM
Canadian, that is a good post. I have to shoe due to the nature of standardbred racing. My riding horse is barefoot most of the time and he just now got shod all four since he is going to be outriding and ponying at the local tb training center (leasing him to a friend, got tired of juggling his schedule with my racing stock) Even my racing stock, their feet are trimmed and shod to their gait plus also on how to improve their gait. Pacing is natural but to pace a mile in sub 2 minutes takes a lot of training and shoeing is very important. Also trotters have a tremendous amount of shoeing involved with them. To keep a trotter flat for a 2 minute mile takes a nice amount of breeding, training, and shoeing. My trotter has 9/16's rounds with a 2 ounce toe weight to keep him flat. He is also older (10 yo) and a lot of trotters now don't need the extra weight for the trot.
The avg backyard horse doesn't need the amount of shoeing that a standardbred does, but each horse is an individual and they have individual needs for angles, inches, and also in the sport they participate in. The horses hoof needs to come first before the owners personal opinion.
Posts: 479 | From: Florida | Registered: Jan 2004
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probarrelracer
Member
Member # 1942
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posted May 10, 2004 06:22 PM
Lowering the heels of horses leads to bowed tendons. If your horse has low heels, I'd use something to lift them.
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http://www.picturetrail.com/gid3998200
Posts: 466 | From: Louisiana | Registered: Mar 2004
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okiegal
Junior Member
Member # 2474
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posted May 11, 2004 06:20 PM
Hi,
I'm an advocate of the barefoot trim and since I've been having someone out to do it my mare's feet are more concave vs "flat pancakes" like they were and no more splitting. Additionally, it's the first time I've seen my horses square up on their own indicating a balanced state.
Here's a couple of sites to learn more. There is a lot more education out there I find it fascinating.
http://www.ironfreehoof.com
http://www.barefoothorse.com
Cara
Posts: 3 | From: NE Oklahoma | Registered: May 2004
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Super_Trooper
Member
Member # 1344
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posted May 12, 2004 09:29 AM
I personally think high heels causes more problems...like walking in high heel shoes...not right.
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True commitment begins when you reach the point of not knowing how you could possibly go on, and deciding to do it anyway!
Posts: 2411 | From: BC Canada | Registered: Jan 2004
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