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Author
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Topic: What if the genes don't "nick" well?
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Jumpers
Member
Member # 961
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posted March 28, 2004 06:16 PM
I've been thinking on this for a very long time and I just don't get it. Our Thoroughbred mare is absolutely perfect in conformation except for a prominent withers. She's a JC Thoroughbred, raced on the track for 5 years, earned $82,000. I've posted pics of her before. She is HIGHLY athletic. Uses herself beautifully. She would have been Grand Prix dressage potential if she didn't go to the track instead. Here she is, and keep in mind that I took this a couple months ago when she turned 19.
Okay - well, we bred her with the Hano stallion, West Coast who is absolutely phenominal. FEI Dressage. Jumps up to 5 feet. Here he is:
Our resulting gelding is a dud ![[Confused]](confused.gif) He's a big huge unbalanced ox. No athletic ability. No pizazz. No real appeal at all. He's hot as a firecracker. 7 years old and haven't been able to do much with him at all. I mean "stupid" hot, not "flashy" hot. He gets all spazzed to the max and then ties up bad, requires shots, etc. He's been through every test known to man and it's nothing physical - it's all mental.
So how could we end up with such a dud of a horse out of two fabulous horses?? This completely boggles me. Has anyone ever had anything happen like this? Our mares other foals are spectacular, but this one gelding is awful. He's a sweeties and I love him to death, but the only thing he could possibly excel at is Western Pleasure. Now how can we have a big high powered warmblood turn out to be a Western Pleasure horse and nothing more??
I mean this guy has no suspension, no impulsion, when jumping he crashes through fences - doesn't even try to jump them. Bombed out of Dressage training.
Is it possible that the genes just didn't "nick" well?
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"If I fail - I fail. But at least it will be a monumental failure." Mel Gibson
Posts: 3011 | Registered: Nov 2003
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horse_crazy
Member
Member # 334
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posted March 28, 2004 06:32 PM
Well, i suppose you would end up with one "bad" foal out of a fabulous mare once in awhile.(Bad: Menaing a foal you dont like)Maybe he isnt ment to do the things that you want. Im sure that if he turns out being a good trail horse, or Western pleasure horse, that would suit him fine. maybe dressage and jumping just arent what this horse is ment to do, whether he is bred for it or not.
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Mares:
Honey-buckskin(in-foal to a smutty buckskin stallion)
BG-palomino/dunalino(foaled a beautiful filly)
Dibby-dun(in-foal to a palomino stallion)
Star Bucks-buttermilk buckskin(not bred, we may just use her as a riding horse)
Fillies:
Lizzy-grulla(will be used as a broodmare in the future, due to an injury as a weanling...we are unsure if she will be riding sound, although she might be, as her injury has healed so well...you can't even tell)
Sheba-black(hopefully will be shown in Halter classes starting this year)
Blue-blue roan(we aren't too sure what we are going to do with this filly yet....but she is a cutie)
Geldings:
Poco-sorrel/overo*Paint*(Awesome riding horse!)
Brandy-*FOR SALE*(Nice 2 yr old, going into training soon, price will go up, feel free to ask me about him..if you are interested)
Foals:
Tinker Bell- Red dun filly. Nice short neck, long legs, beautiful eyes..absolutely beautiful. Very people friendly.
Other 2 foals are expecting between May and June.
Posts: 853 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Jun 2003
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Blistering Winds
Member
Member # 843
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posted March 28, 2004 06:32 PM
Performance is not very heredible. It is like a .06 on the heredity. NOt sure, but I can look it up tomorrow in Breeding class.
Just because the parents were awesome, doesn't mean the next generation will be.
Take Seabiscuit. Could run like the dickens. But couldn't breed a runner that could run out of a paper sack. Same with Secretariate. Now his Grandchildren run.....
But anyways, again, performance is not 100% genetcs. There is Environmental factors and training factors. If one thing gets affected, the performance is thrown off or increased. And again, performance is very LOW on the ability to be passed on from one generation to the next.
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Horses should not be treated as people. They should be respected for who they are and what they are capable of doing!
Born Free Now Expensive
Posts: 4337 | From: Texas | Registered: Oct 2003
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Dancinglite
Member
Member # 1892
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posted March 28, 2004 07:16 PM
Jumpers
It happens. One of my students has a Goldslagher gelding--beautiful suspension, big (17.2 hh) chestnut sabino,hugh gaits but as dumb as they come. Also crashes through fences (should be able to jump like a deer with that breeding) and has the biggest--"I don't think so" attitude there is. He is nothing but a pain to ride forward and getting anything out of him is like pulling teeth. If he were born in Germany he would be in a dog can.
Breeding the warmblood stallions to TB's mares can sometimes get too much of the "hot" part of the TB in a large powerfull warmblood body and create a difficult ride. This happened back some 20 years ago when the imported WB's were bred to the existing mare population and the resulting cross sometimes came out too "hot" and sometimes too "cold".
I got lucky (although I did do a lot of research) when I bred my Cozy's Commander filly to a "D" line stallion.
Posts: 165 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Jumpers
Member
Member # 961
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posted March 28, 2004 08:38 PM
Thank you so much for all the input. It helps me alot! We've bred this same mare to a G-Line Hanoverian, and a pure Thoroughbred and got 2 fantastic offspring who can and will do anything you ask of them with great ease and beauty. And this mare's only grandson was simply unbelievable until his early death at age 3.
And then there's Kapitan....... ![[Bawling]](graemlins/bawling.gif) It's so hard to look at a 17.2 hand, 1500 pound Warmblood and know he's gonna be a trail horse, possibly a little Western Pleasure, and that's it.
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"If I fail - I fail. But at least it will be a monumental failure." Mel Gibson
Posts: 3011 | Registered: Nov 2003
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space_cowboy
Member
Member # 1308
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posted March 29, 2004 02:48 AM
one of my retired GP horses was an anglo-trekhaner (i never spell that right) and she was hot as ever but her brother was pretty moderate being the same cross by the same stallion out of a different mare.........
They both had amazing athletic ability. Sassy was just a pain and diner was really easy going.
[ March 29, 2004, 02:48 AM: Message edited by: space_cowboy ]
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Horses are my life, and I couldn't imagine my life without them.......
http://community.webshots.com/user/silver_spur
Posts: 383 | From: houston | Registered: Jan 2004
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belle4
Member
Member # 864
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posted March 29, 2004 08:07 AM
Here's another example of breeding gone wrong. My trainer friend had a 4 year old QH gelding with impecable breeding. He was Zips CC on the bottom and Hotrodders Jet Set on the top. He should have been a prince in the high stakes pleasure world. He had the worst knee action on any QH I have ever seen! He would pick his knees up at least 12 inches too much. His knee would form a "C" at the highest point in the stride. And that was jogging, slow! All QH people know that knee action is a big NO NO. He had a natural head set, slow cadenced gaits and a pleasure to be around, but way too much knee for any breed show. She ended up selling him to a youth to show at open shows for $6000, far less than what he should have been worth. He was definately a freak. Given his breeding, he should have been a super star.
Posts: 1075 | From: michigan | Registered: Oct 2003
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Grandsgirl2003
Member
Member # 1679
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posted March 29, 2004 08:53 AM
The two good horses came out with a dud? Are you selling this dud?? I would be very interesed in this dud lol!: ) just let me know!: )
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"You're not an ugly person,Your a pretty monkey!"- Grey Gilbride
"Friends are like Pringles chips, you eat one and cont stop having more!!"-Colleen Gilbride ;)
Posts: 1122 | Registered: Feb 2004
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horse_crazy
Member
Member # 334
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posted March 29, 2004 05:14 PM
Its not a bad thing that he will be a good trail horse or Western Pleasure horse. Its just not what you were thinking of what you'd like him to do. But you can always breed your mare to another stallion, and hopefully get what you are looking for. If you really dislike this horse, maybe put him up for sale. Im sure there is someone out there looking for a big trail horse, or possible Western Pleasure horse.
Good luck.
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Mares:
Honey-buckskin(in-foal to a smutty buckskin stallion)
BG-palomino/dunalino(foaled a beautiful filly)
Dibby-dun(in-foal to a palomino stallion)
Star Bucks-buttermilk buckskin(not bred, we may just use her as a riding horse)
Fillies:
Lizzy-grulla(will be used as a broodmare in the future, due to an injury as a weanling...we are unsure if she will be riding sound, although she might be, as her injury has healed so well...you can't even tell)
Sheba-black(hopefully will be shown in Halter classes starting this year)
Blue-blue roan(we aren't too sure what we are going to do with this filly yet....but she is a cutie)
Geldings:
Poco-sorrel/overo*Paint*(Awesome riding horse!)
Brandy-*FOR SALE*(Nice 2 yr old, going into training soon, price will go up, feel free to ask me about him..if you are interested)
Foals:
Tinker Bell- Red dun filly. Nice short neck, long legs, beautiful eyes..absolutely beautiful. Very people friendly.
Other 2 foals are expecting between May and June.
Posts: 853 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Jun 2003
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