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Author
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Topic: Everybody PLEASE think first!
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ColtysHeart
Member
Member # 2008
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posted March 25, 2004 11:41 AM
Everyone planning on breeding their mare this spring, please think first. Why are you breeding? Is it because you think it might be fun? You want to experience the "miracle of birth". You have a real sweet great mare that you would like to duplicate. Please think about the future first. Today the horse industry is being bombarded by the unwanted offspring of backyard breeders. It's almost like the stray dog/cat problem in the US. To many people are breeding horses without taking a real hard look at their horse. Conformation faults, temperment, etc. Please only breed horses that are the best of the best both in temperment and conformation. The current glut of horses in the market are fueling the slaughter horse industry. Whether you like it or not, most grade horses and several papered horses end up there before they reach 5 years old. For gosh sakes, Ferdinand (Kentucky Derby winner) was sent to slaughter. That is my view and it comes from many years of dealing with abused and neglected horses (throw aways).
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Pam
Colty - 3 yrd old Paint
Sadie - 6 yr old Paint
Baylee - 20+ pony
Posts: 46 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Mar 2004
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shell
Member
Member # 1582
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posted March 25, 2004 11:53 AM
here is his story. So sad.
Sometimes this game is criminal
Blood-Horse reports 1986 Kentucky Derby winner Ferdinand died in Japan, but you won’t believe how
It doesn’t seem like 17 years since a big, beautiful 3-year-old chestnut did more for my career in this industry than any horse — or person, for that matter — ever has. The horse provided me with instant credibility in about two minutes — 2:024/5 to be exact.
I had gone on national radio — KMOX in St. Louis, American Sports Network out of Las Vegas, etc., the night before the 1986 Kentucky Derby. I have it all on tape: “In this race I love Ferdinand, and I love the price; for second I’m gonna go to Bold Arrangement.” I didn’t bet that near-$400 exacta, but I won much more than a few dollars that day; I earned a reputation.
Needless to say, Ferdinand always held a special place in my heart. So you can imagine my sadness when I read an article in Blood-Horse magazine reporting of his death.
Horses die. It’s a fact of life. Some too soon. But not one should ever meet the fate of Ferdinand. Not a Kentucky Derby winner; not a $5,000 claimer.
For those who missed it — and heed this warning: The faint hearted should turn the page right now — the Blood-Horse, in an exclusive report written by Barbara Bayer in the July 26 issue, revealed that Ferdinand had apparently been slaughtered in Japan sometime in 2002.
Bayer attempted to learn of Ferdinand’s whereabouts after a member of the family of Howard Keck, who owned and bred the horse, inquired about having him returned to the United States, where he began his stud career at Claiborne Farm in 1989 for $30,000 live foal.
Ferdinand’s first few crops did not particularly excel on the racetrack, and he was later sold to Japan’s JS Company in the fall of 1994. Ferdinand spent six breeding seasons at Arrow Stud on the northern island of Hokkaido from 1995-2000. But his book dwindled from 77 mares to 10.
After efforts to place Ferdinand with a riding club failed, he passed into the hands of a horse dealer and left the farm Feb. 3, 2001. Here’s where the story gets fuzzy. Bayer at first was told Ferdinand had been given to a friend. When she asked for more information, she was told Ferdinand was gelded and at a riding club “far away from here.” However, records showed Ferdinand was bred to six mares in 2001 and two in 2002.
But when Bayer told this horse dealer she wanted to see Ferdinand, the story changed yet again. “Actually, he isn’t around anymore,” she was told. “He was disposed of late last year.” Bayer learned Ferdinand’s registration in Japan was annulled Sept. 1, 2002. It seems in Japan, the term “disposed of” is used to mean slaughtered, Bayer wrote in The Blood-Horse.
Bayer notes that Ferdinand’s story is the story of nearly every imported stallion in Japan at that point in time when the figures no longer weigh in his favor. In this country Ferdinand’s fate is not the exception; it is the rule. Shortages of land and the high cost of maintaining a pensioned horse are reasons slaughter is considered an alternate.
We tell this story for one reason: to make people aware that this type of cruelty goes on all over the world. It’s why it is important to support efforts like the Thoroughbred Retirement Foundation to stop the slaughter of thoroughbreds in this country. To have this happen to a Derby winner is criminal. To have this happen to a horse you once owned or trained is no more acceptable.
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Unicorn Sisters, a fun fantasy adventure story with lots of horses!!! (The sequel due out next year!) Available at Amazon.com and Author House publishing. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/ref=s_sf_b_as/103-1974227-3315015
http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=22209
or call toll free:
888-280-7715.
Posts: 556 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Feb 2004
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Sandra-A1
Member
Member # 588
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posted March 25, 2004 12:02 PM
Ferdinand was sent to slaughter by his Japanese Owners because he failed in the breeding shed. They did try to find a place there that wanted him. Eventually was no place that wanted him. Japan is a small island country with limited space and resources.
Yes, they eat horsemeat there. That is part of their culture. Ferdinand was not abandoned and left somewhere to starve and suffer.
Horses are a livestock and a food animal, they always have been. Nothing we can do will change that fact. Some cultures feel that horses are still a meat staple, Japan happens to be one of those cultures.
[ March 25, 2004, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: Sandra-A1 ]
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"It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
-Dumbledore
Posts: 1863 | From: Alabama | Registered: Aug 2003
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babs
Member
Member # 1501
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posted March 25, 2004 12:10 PM
Good point coltysheart!
Posts: 1242 | From: Belfast Northern Ireland | Registered: Jan 2004
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shell
Member
Member # 1582
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posted March 25, 2004 12:11 PM
Still, I believe he "Earned" the right to live out his life as the great horse he was. He defiantly won and earned enough money to have had a long healthy life with someone who respected him for his accomplishments. I think his American owners should have kept him. He was a champion after all. How many of us can say we have a derby winner in our barn? What an honor. He did not die like the champion he was.
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Unicorn Sisters, a fun fantasy adventure story with lots of horses!!! (The sequel due out next year!) Available at Amazon.com and Author House publishing. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/ref=s_sf_b_as/103-1974227-3315015
http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore/ItemDetail.aspx?bookid=22209
or call toll free:
888-280-7715.
Posts: 556 | From: New Hampshire | Registered: Feb 2004
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Sandra-A1
Member
Member # 588
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posted March 25, 2004 12:26 PM
quote:
he "Earned" the right to live out his life as the great horse he was. He defiantly won and earned enough money to have had a long healthy life with someone who respected him for his accomplishments. I think his American owners should have kept him.
Exactly Shell...you will get no argument from me there! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Still I will not critize or judge the Japanese (or any other) people because their cultural beliefs are different than ours.
I wonder where are all of these people who cared so much for this horse when his owners sold him to people in another country? The TB Industry has known for a LONG time what happens to the TB horses in Japan.
Why was there no outrage BEFORE Ferdinand left this country?
Why was no one looking out for him and following what was going on with him BEFORE he was sold by the Japanese TB Farm that had him?
He was sold to Japan’s JS Company in the fall of 1994 yet no one started looking for him until sometime after the year 2002?
It doesn't make sense to me.
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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"It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
-Dumbledore
Posts: 1863 | From: Alabama | Registered: Aug 2003
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littlecelticpony
Member
Member # 1480
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posted March 25, 2004 02:40 PM
i agree with all of you - however, i don't believe that horsemeat in Japan is considered a "staple". rather, it is a delicacy, from what I have heard/read.
however, i do have a link to pass along, for educational purposes.
http://www.horsekillers.com
PLEASE NOTE: the videos on this site are NOT for the light of heart.
but perhaps if more people realised what exactly happened in those slaughterhouses (such as the BelTex plant, down the road from my house), maybe more people would oppose them.
just my two cents. :-)
[ March 25, 2004, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: littlecelticpony ]
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Xanga...
Pictures...
"I killed your cat! I thought that would bring closure to our relationship!"
"I'll have a Coke, then."
Do not underestimate your horse's pride, or he will dent yours.
Posts: 1225 | Registered: Jan 2004
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Sandra-A1
Member
Member # 588
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posted March 25, 2004 02:57 PM
Yes, it is considered a delicacy in Japan.
My point was that Japan is limited in size, area and resources so there really is not a lot of room for retirment homes for horses. Also eating of any livestock....horses included is perfectly acceptable there because a part of their culture.
If people in this country were so concerned about Ferdinand why did they wait so long to look him up?
As for the website and video it has been posted and discussed on this website before and several of us have already posted our opinions about horse slaughter on these other threads.:
Horse Slaughter? Do you agree?
Horse Slaughter -Necessary Evil I think NOT
[ March 25, 2004, 03:01 PM: Message edited by: Sandra-A1 ]
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"It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
-Dumbledore
Posts: 1863 | From: Alabama | Registered: Aug 2003
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OwnerofWillow
Member
Member # 2012
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posted March 25, 2004 03:32 PM
Is this any differant than how Cattle are slaughterd? I honestly dont know how it is done. What about chickens, fish, Lamb, pigs, turkeys, ducks, etc. I think it is awful that they have not found a better way to slaughter them but the horse meat is eaten. I wouldnt eat it but that is my preference. Just as I wouldnt eat dog or cat though some do. If you dont want this to happen to your horse then when you buy a horse make sure you are commited to keeping that animal for its life. Just like a dog or cat. Yes horses are more expensive to up keep but you need to think about that when you buy a horse.
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Two Tru Willow (pending)
If you don't know how to spell a word use this link Spellcheck
Posts: 809 | From: AZ | Registered: Mar 2004
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horse_crazy
Member
Member # 334
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posted March 25, 2004 05:12 PM
We breed Quarter Horses, and we dont breed any mares that arent "worth" breeding. They have to have an excellent dispostition, good conformation, and are people friendly. Although, all of our hoprses are all of these things, ![[Smile]](smile.gif) . When we buy a horse, we dont buy it just for hte heck of it, we buy because of what the horse has offer...ex. conformation,ect. Last year, we had a perlino colt born here. He was supposed to be my horse.....well it turned out...he wasnt really what I was looking for. He went up for sale as a foal. And was sold...really fast! He went to a great home. I think that as long as you are breeding for the "right" reasons...or if you are breeding once or so just for another horse for you family, thats fine. And if you have a good history for selling horses, thats even better! We only choose the best stallions that compliment our mare(s). Wre have always ended up with a nice, even tempered, healthy, people friendly, good conformation, good personality foal. And we hope to continue to do so. We go the extra mile with our horses, if they need something...its theirs...no question about money or anything liek that. All of our foals are handled daily,and so far have turned into some great horses.
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Mares:
Honey-buckskin(in-foal to a smutty buckskin stallion)
BG-palomino/dunalino(foaled a beautiful filly)
Dibby-dun(in-foal to a palomino stallion)
Star Bucks-buttermilk buckskin(not bred, we may just use her as a riding horse)
Fillies:
Lizzy-grulla(will be used as a broodmare in the future, due to an injury as a weanling...we are unsure if she will be riding sound, although she might be, as her injury has healed so well...you can't even tell)
Sheba-black(hopefully will be shown in Halter classes starting this year)
Blue-blue roan(we aren't too sure what we are going to do with this filly yet....but she is a cutie)
Geldings:
Poco-sorrel/overo*Paint*(Awesome riding horse!)
Brandy-*FOR SALE*(Nice 2 yr old, going into training soon, price will go up, feel free to ask me about him..if you are interested)
Foals:
Tinker Bell- Red dun filly. Nice short neck, long legs, beautiful eyes..absolutely beautiful. Very people friendly.
Other 2 foals are expecting between May and June.
Posts: 853 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Jun 2003
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littlecelticpony
Member
Member # 1480
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posted March 25, 2004 05:19 PM
Well, forgive me for re-posting the link to that site. The reason I posted it was for people to pass along to others - not to start another one of those heated discussions, nor to sound condescending to those already posting on this thread. I am opposed to the slaughterhouses in the US, what happens in other countries (regarding slaughter) I really have no opinion on.
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Xanga...
Pictures...
"I killed your cat! I thought that would bring closure to our relationship!"
"I'll have a Coke, then."
Do not underestimate your horse's pride, or he will dent yours.
Posts: 1225 | Registered: Jan 2004
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cowgurly02
Member
Member # 1962
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posted March 25, 2004 06:54 PM
I am not against horse slaughter. It is sad, but I find it no different than slaughtering cattle or sheep, etc...Coltysheart is right, there is an overrun of horses. I'd rather see them killed humanely than left neglected and starving.
I live down the road from a horse and cattle feedlot/slaughter plant and my friend works in the cattle part of it. Here in Canada the horses are killed humanely with a bolt of electricy to the head. The horses must be LEGALLY dead before their throats are slit. There are also MANDATORY breaks that the haulers have to take if travelling far and the horses are not kept in the feed lots long and have a constant supply of feed and water and are in no way abused. They are killed just like cattle.
I am not going to judge a country for eating horse meat. I live in Canada, and in Quebec (the french province) horse meat is also considered a delicacy. If that's what they want to eat, they can. I personally wouldn't eat it, but if somebody wants to so be it. Some countries (India) think that eating beef is a sin and that we are disgusting for eating beef. Well I guess that's their belief, but I won't stop eating beef because of them so how can I expect others to stop eating horse?
I agree that it's sad, but I also believe that it is necessary. At least until the horse pop. is under control! Everything that Coltysheart said is true, so hopefully it will change some people's minds on breeding.
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"A day without bulls, horses, barrels, poles, cowboys, and wranglers wouldn't be a day at all."
- NJRA contestant
http://img64.photobucket.com/albums/v194/cowgurly02/
Posts: 471 | From: Alberta, Canada | Registered: Mar 2004
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HorseCrazy1981
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Member # 1771
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posted March 26, 2004 05:34 AM
I am sure most people don't breed/sell their horses planning on sending them to a slaughterhouse.
You talk about backyard breeding, and you mention a registered TB racehorse, doesn't mesh. Anyway, if I cared that much about a horse, I would keep tabs on it at least twice a year (that was in my sale contract of our last colt, along with a clause about me getting him back if the owner ever decided he didn't want the foal).
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I love my babies!!
Beauty--Heinz 57 mare
Prince--TB gelding
Black--Arab/TW mare
Buffy--Belgian mare
Angel--Arabian mare
Desiree--Arabian mare
Eventually I have to get up off my lazy butt and do something.
Posts: 908 | From: Mississippi | Registered: Feb 2004
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emsNkeeper
Member
Member # 1866
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posted March 26, 2004 07:41 PM
I have never been against slaughter houses... no offense... where would some horses go that would just be neglected or abused because of back yard breeders ( I have been one myself but I choose carefully on the mare and stallion). Rather it's how horses get to the slaughter houses that's inhumane... I live not far from The NEW HOLLAND AUCTION
Posts: 78 | Registered: Mar 2004
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emsNkeeper
Member
Member # 1866
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posted March 26, 2004 07:45 PM
ok that was weird... I was just cut off... but it posted.
anyways...
new holland is one of thee worst meat auctions and there are always problems, though there are laws against cattle trailers... they sit about 15 miles form the auction where the horses are transfered from horse trailers to cattle/livestock trailers... or they wait just beyond the boarder. New Holland is a sad place to walk through... most of those horses look like they would welcome the slaughter house.
But yes... back yard breeders are the problem, and in this area (no one kill me) so are some of the amish (not all, just some).
Posts: 78 | Registered: Mar 2004
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HorseCrazy1981
Member
Member # 1771
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posted March 26, 2004 09:30 PM
I say if we want to change the way the horse industry is headed, we just need to change our attitudes, slow some of the breeding down, especially in breeding farms where so many foals are turned out. There shouldn't be a horse for every backyard in the world.
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I love my babies!!
Beauty--Heinz 57 mare
Prince--TB gelding
Black--Arab/TW mare
Buffy--Belgian mare
Angel--Arabian mare
Desiree--Arabian mare
Eventually I have to get up off my lazy butt and do something.
Posts: 908 | From: Mississippi | Registered: Feb 2004
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OwnerofWillow
Member
Member # 2012
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posted March 26, 2004 10:01 PM
I know by where my dad lives in PA the amish buy ex race horses as their horses. They dont breed them but I dont know if that is just that area.
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Two Tru Willow (pending)
If you don't know how to spell a word use this link Spellcheck
Posts: 809 | From: AZ | Registered: Mar 2004
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PawNHoofPrints
Member
Member # 518
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posted March 27, 2004 01:53 PM
I'm right there with you ColtysHeart. Same question should be asked before you breed your dogs and cats. Do we REALLY need another litter of kittens? of dogs? another foal?
Posts: 434 | From: Missouri | Registered: Aug 2003
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gdp1
Junior Member
Member # 2030
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posted March 27, 2004 02:32 PM
To put it simply: 3 of the rescue horses we have here now are the result of someone's breeding for the sake of breeding. As well as 8 cats and 4 dogs.
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Every horse deserves a chance.
Posts: 10 | From: Dallesport Washington | Registered: Mar 2004
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FrostedPaintsNApps
Member
Member # 2048
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posted March 27, 2004 02:53 PM
I am with you guys on this subject but I do my own horses for my own use. I've had local breeders compliment on how Nice Fezick looks, how straight his legs are, how straight his legs are, how nice his head is, muscling etc... Then they ask me who his dam and sire are. My reply, and I'm not ashamed of this, is "I don't know." Its the same way with Frosty, my farrier who is well known in the area for breeding western pleasure types, says that he has good shape for a "Mix blood"(paso Fino Quarter Horse). Frosty has yet for his muscle and fat to catch up with his growing upwards. As for horses being over populated, yes they are BUT so are humans. If we set rules for humans as we do for horses then who could ver have children? If a person had a defect then they couldn't have kids, or if they weren't a famous figure they couldn't. Another thing, could all on this forum name their family tree all the way to their great great grand parents and if they couldn't, no children for them. I myself wouldn't be able to have children because I have PCOS (Polycystic Ovarian Sydrome), I'm alergic to Nickel and (bare with me on this spelling) Amoxacillin, and I also have ADHD which is very common. My dad is a diabetic, shouldn't he have had me? My mom is manic depressive too.
I don't want people to be mad at me for what I have said but that is something to think about. I am a Jehovah's Witness, in my religion we believe that the Great Tribulation is very very very near to come and that all wickedness is to be wicked from the face of the earth. What does this have to do with this you may ask? It is also said that when it does come things will be so bad that if God didn't intervine no life would survive. Its prophesied that JWs are going to be persecuted until the world nations begin to kill them off and UNTIL then I am going to enjoy having more horses as much as possible. Although when the day does come when the authorities come to take me and my family away I'll be glad cause then I'll know the end is here. After that I can have all the horses my heart desires, if there are any left.
Sorry for the long statement. Please don't send me hate mail because I'm a Jehovah's Witness. I hope I got my opinion heard. Thank you.
Sincerely,
Eva Edwards
Ps: If you want to see my horses go to the link on my signature.
Posts: 146 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Mar 2004
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FrostedPaintsNApps
Member
Member # 2048
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posted March 27, 2004 03:04 PM
Its prophesied that JWs are going to be persecuted until the world nations begin to kill them off and UNTIL then I am going to enjoy having horses as much as possible.
Thats what I meant.
Sincerely,
Eva Edwards
Posts: 146 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Mar 2004
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cowgurly02
Member
Member # 1962
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posted March 27, 2004 03:54 PM
umm the breeding of animals is lot different than people having kids.
and some people do sell horses intentionally to slaughterhouses. We have sold one horse for meat intentionally because he was dangerous and attacked my brother when my brother was 5. Can't have horses around like that.
[ March 27, 2004, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: cowgurly02 ]
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"A day without bulls, horses, barrels, poles, cowboys, and wranglers wouldn't be a day at all."
- NJRA contestant
http://img64.photobucket.com/albums/v194/cowgurly02/
Posts: 471 | From: Alberta, Canada | Registered: Mar 2004
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OwnerofWillow
Member
Member # 2012
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posted March 27, 2004 04:42 PM
The differances between ppl having kids and animals being bred is that the animals are not free to make up their own minds. If they were do you think they would care what pedigree the yummy looking boy in the corner had? No. We choose to breed them. (not talking about the horses that get out and breed) So it is our responsibility to care for them which some ppl have a problem grasping. I do agree though that if the derby winner mentioned above was so cared for by its previous owners they would have asked way before a couple years later how the horse was doing.
A "mutt" or mixed breed horse is not better or worse off than a purebred. The reason ppl want purebreds is for showing purposes. The reason ppl choose to breed to famous horses is because they have proven they are good in their disapline. Breeding should be done responsibly. If I breed my horse it will be so that my family can have the foal. I would do everything in my power to keep said foal until it has lived out his life. If I ever had to get rid of one of my horses I would make sure that I kept tabs on that horse and made the owners check with me before selling. I do not believe in ppl breeding any animal just for the heck of it. I have two dogs an APBT that I had fixed because we do not need to have any "accident" puppies.. We have a Purebred Dachshund that we will be fixing because she is deformed ( as 90% of double dapples are) and she would not make a good breeding candidate. Also I am not in the dog breeding or horse breeding business. If more ppl thought responsibly about which animals to breed or not breed there would be less unwanted animals around. I am not saying you are irresponsible for breeding your horse just that if you do not have a purpose other than well we want a baby horsie think twice about it. There are alot of horses out there even babies. I havent decided for sure if I will breed my mare next spring or not.. It all depends on if I find a young horse that fills my needs before next spring comes. I have given myself a year to look for a second horse that will be a good fit temperment wise with my family.
As far as ppl breeding horses for slaughter... They do not intentionally breed their horses for slaughter. If they choose to take the horse to slaughter it is usually because it is dangerous or ill... They do not run a Horse breeding farm where babies are fed up like cattle to be taken to slaughter. I hope that made sense.
Just as dogs and cats in over populated shelters must be euthanized, horses that are unwanted need to be killed. It is better that then starved or mistreated. And if someone in Japan is chowing down on Mr. Tiddlywinks who cares? The horse doesnt feel it.
Now getting off my soapbox so I can do my laundry.
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Two Tru Willow (pending)
If you don't know how to spell a word use this link Spellcheck
Posts: 809 | From: AZ | Registered: Mar 2004
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FrostedPaintsNApps
Member
Member # 2048
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posted March 28, 2004 05:55 PM
Pure breds are beautiful, I really agree with you there. They are great for show. I've had people want me to use Jack for show because he's Black and has a very very naturally cury long mane. I've noticed though with Purebreds they tend to have more faults , not conformational, but all around. Like some breds get arthritis(sp?) easily and some don't. I like mixed breeds because then you can counter act the problems to make a beter horse. The the lighter friesian sport horses. I have 3 Mixed bred and 3 Pure breds. All are very nice to work with.
Lately I have been looking into buying PMU Foals because there's alot of great looking foals with nice conformation. Chyenne when we bought her had very very beautiful conformation but then Jack ran her threw our old barded wire fence (which is now all gone thank god), and ripped the muscles out of her front right leg. She over stressed and hyper extended the other leg and then got extremely skinny skinny this year from getting sore knees and not being able to come up for food like the others until we seperated her. My vet says she'll still be good for breeding, but riding may be a problem. She looks so crooked now from all her accidents you'd never guess it was the same horse.
[ March 28, 2004, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: FrostedPaintsNApps ]
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Frosted Paints & Appaloosas
Fox Ridge Ranch
Horse Pictures
Posts: 146 | From: Minnesota | Registered: Mar 2004
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